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Underground > Switchboard >

Reaction of U.S. Govt. to Attack

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16:49 / 11.09.01

i said it over in the thread about the plane crashes with no response so i'm starting a new thread over here:

what are possible alternatives to violent action for the U.S. govt.

Advantages/Disadvantages to them (theoretical or experience through history)?

Just to throw the idea out: what if the U.S. Govt. did nothing? Beefed up airport security (or/and other defensive measures) as a terrorist prevention measure and left it at that?

Nick's Experimental Wrongness

16:56 / 11.09.01

Well, for a start, there'd be a new US President inside of about two months.

16:57 / 11.09.01

at the moment there doesn't seem much that can usefully be done other than information gathering.

16:59 / 11.09.01

why do you think there'd be a new pres nick?

17:13 / 11.09.01

Does anyone really think that this administration (or any other in US history) would allow this sort of attack to go unanswered? The radio transmissions from the planes are sure to be under heavy scrutiny even as we er... type. Im pretty sure that they already know who is responsable for the attacks even if they woln't release the information for several days. Im also fairly sure that we will hear of the retaliation before we hear who the US government believes to be responsable.

17:27 / 11.09.01

quote:Originally posted by tag:
what are possible alternatives to violent action for the U.S. govt.

Advantages/Disadvantages to them (theoretical or experience through history)?

It would be nice if the US could grow up as a country, take an evolutionary leap forward and take an entirely novel and unprecedented approach to this horror. Namely, to think long and hard about why it happened, why nearly everyone in the world hates us, why we are considered 'the bully' of the international scene, why anyone would so desperately hate us as to commit this act, and change. I would cry like a baby if the president called a press conference and say 'Whatever we did to you to deserve this, we're sorry. How can we make things right?' I suppose this makes me a bad american, but this incident doesn't make me angry; it makes me sorry. Sorry for not doing everything I could have to make my government the good guy that it claims to be, because I can't honestly say that we don't deserve this.

17:34 / 11.09.01

These were not military targets. Nobody deserves this.

17:42 / 11.09.01

It is not anywhere NEAR out of the question that 50,000 people in new York City alone will die from this. That many people work in the trade center alone, plus people on mass transit below it, buildings around it, rescue personnel , etc.

This has become a question of cold, hard geopolitics now. Whichever country is harboring the suspects will be invaded, no question.

17:48 / 11.09.01

The US government represents the people. At least that's the theory. If the government doesn't represent the people, the people need to overthrow the govenment. We have not done so. Hell, I haven't even tried.

Nobody deserves to be mercilessly killed, but we didn't do everything we could do to prevent it. To wholely blame the 'terrorists' for this is ignore our own contribution to it.

17:51 / 11.09.01

any nation SUSPECTED of harboring the "masterminds" is in for an American Shitstorm. expect at least one desert nation to be fully paved by this time next month.

Ronald Thomas Clontle

17:57 / 11.09.01

I don't think I've seen this in any of the threads yet... Vice President Cheney has now been put in charge of the US Government, as of around noon US Eastern time...

17:59 / 11.09.01

is that a joke? I don't even want to begin to talk about Bush, the republicans, and their posturing yet. I am too angry and I'd rather be angry about who did this now

Ganesh

18:00 / 11.09.01

It's chilling that the instinct for revenge has been evoked so immediately after the event itself...

18:02 / 11.09.01

quote:Originally posted by Ganesh:
It's chilling that the instinct for revenge has been evoked so immediately after the event itself...

It beats the Fear.

Ronald Thomas Clontle

18:02 / 11.09.01

No joke. CBS, CNN, and MSNBC have all reported that Cheney has been placed in charge of the US gov't for the time being...Bush is in hiding with the Secret Service.

18:09 / 11.09.01

quote:Originally posted by grant:
It beats the Fear.
Nothin' beats the Fear, baby.

18:23 / 11.09.01

quote:Originally posted by Biodegradable K-9:
These were not military targets. Nobody deserves this.

there hasn't been a non-military target since the first zeppelin dropped bombs on London in WWI.

18:26 / 11.09.01

In the long run, expect a push to decentralize the offices of government, finance and the military. Monoliths like the Pentagon and the Trade Center are relics of the pre-internet world. The scurrying fool we have in the White House has made some steps in this direction already, what with the “White House West” and so on.

19:01 / 11.09.01

quote:Originally posted by Chuckling Duck:
In the long run, expect a push to decentralize the offices of government, finance and the military. Monoliths like the Pentagon and the Trade Center are relics of the pre-internet world. The scurrying fool we have in the White House has made some steps in this direction already, what with the “White House West” and so on.

Actually, just about every president has had an "alternate" White House -- Kennedy's was in Palm Beach, Nixon's was in Miami Beach, Truman's was in Key West. I think Reagan had his digs in California's Big Sur, and Bush Sr. hung out at Kennebunkport.

19:18 / 11.09.01

Well, the gov't should have shut down the airlines immeditely after the 1st crash, instead of waiting an hour.

19:25 / 11.09.01

Bush's words were "We will find and punish those responsible." Dude sounded like he already had planes fueled up to go erase most of the Middle East.

On a side note, my school ordered all students out of the dorms and the Arabian kids were looking mighty uncomfortable...

Our Lady of The Two Towers

21:00 / 11.09.01

quote:Originally posted by Biodegradable K-9:
These were not military targets. Nobody deserves this.

Hiroshima?

21:17 / 11.09.01

Yeah... comercial News is already banging the Revenge drum...

Talaban is being brought up ALOT ... I also noticed some NEWS footage of celebrations in Palistine... I wonder if it was stock...

21:34 / 11.09.01

all the pundits (at least all the amerikan/allied ones) are now openly saying bin Laden is behind it, proof or no proof. Also, chillingly, lots of opinionizing suggesting that this is an 'opportunity to oppose terrorism and the sponsor states of terrorism' i.e. a great excuse to spend some o' dat munitions budget. Regardless of who is responsible for this specific attack (probably a very, very small group... some of whom are now clearly dead *anyway*) the thinking seems to be bomb em where they live and the problem goes away... oboy.

is it too late to put in for that transfer to andromeda?

21:49 / 11.09.01

All flights have been cancelled...

Let me know if you've got a line on some teleportation...

A key arguement against Bin ladim is the lack of 757's etc in the middle east...

Appariently whoever did this knows how to fly such planes... yikes.

wembley can change in 28 days

22:04 / 11.09.01

I was late for poetry class today, stuck in one of the university buildings with my eyeballs on the news screen watching cnn. A US government official agreed with an earlier statement that this attack was "absolutely on par with the attack on Pearl Harbour, and we plan to respond accordingly."

I took a moment to remember what the response to Pearl Harbour ( <-- oops, you can tell I'm Canadian), and then for the first time today, I really started to get concerned.

Hope everyone's friends and family are okay; one of my friends' best buddies works on the 108th floor of the World Trade Center. He slept in today.

12:04 / 12.09.01

Blair, according to the BBC, has been in contact with other European leaders. They're going to do their best to make this a truly international incident, presumably in an attempt to temper the frayed nerves of ol' Gee Dubya.

12:17 / 12.09.01

...thinking since we're in the switchboard...why didn't eschelon help out at all...is ripping off privacy at least worth that? Or is that what's going on in Afganistan right now...hope its rebel workings if not just a good hearted firework display..

12:26 / 12.09.01

Mimi talks about it here, really good stuff - US history, popular racism, etc.

Rage is back! Attack!

12:26 / 12.09.01

quote:It would be nice if the US could grow up as a country, take an evolutionary leap forward and take an entirely novel and unprecedented approach to this horror. Namely, to think long and hard about why it happened, why nearly everyone in the world hates us, why we are considered 'the bully' of the international scene, why anyone would so desperately hate us as to commit this act, and change. I would cry like a baby if the president called a press conference and say 'Whatever we did to you to deserve this, we're sorry. How can we make things right?' I suppose this makes me a bad american, but this incident doesn't make me angry; it makes me sorry. Sorry for not doing everything I could have to make my government the good guy that it claims to be, because I can't honestly say that we don't deserve this.

It's extremely unrealistic for Bush to do this, but if he did, would it actually work?

Are there any options besides war and "sitting back and taking it."? My dad says that if we "sat back and take it" thousands and thousands more civilians will be killed because our country will newly be seen as weak and easy.

12:26 / 12.09.01

quote:Originally posted by CorvusB:

...I would cry like a baby if the president called a press conference and say 'Whatever we did to you to deserve this, we're sorry. How can we make things right?' I suppose this makes me a bad american, but this incident doesn't make me angry; it makes me sorry. Sorry for not doing everything I could have to make my government the good guy that it claims to be, because I can't honestly say that we don't deserve this.

So now everyone who doesn't like a particular country should attack it and get an apology? Don't think so. This sort of terrorist behaviour is unnacceptable no matter what the "cause". We deserve to have possibly 10,000 people killed by terrorists because our government did or didn't do something that suited them?

I can't imagine where you are coming from. I am trying to understand, but having a REALLY hard time.

What does being a 'good guy' mean? We are often in a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation - if we don't take action and help other countries or groups in countries we are isolationist and self centered. If we do take action and help other countries or groups of people we are imperialistic, evil, and trying to enforce the new world order. While I don't often agree with our international decisions, I can't see where this action was an appropriate response to any of them.

Don't forget this action was as much of a declaration of war as any actual country could muster. At this point I think the response will be in kind to whoever turns out responsible.

As far as an apology being an appropriate response, I doubt an apology from the Great Satan would carry much weight.

If you really think we deserved this, I feel sorry for you.

[ 12-09-2001: Message edited by: Verbal Kint ]

12:26 / 12.09.01

I think it might have to do with alot of the "state-sponcered" acts of terrorism the U.S. has been associated with...

While there's no excusing any of this... Really how much worse is this than the indiscriminant Bombing of Irag or Yugaslavia... or the older Bombings of The Sudan, Beirut or Libia...

Mix in the Schools of the Americas

or the Coupe in Chili all those year ago... the list goes on...

maybe this is some of Amerika'a Kerma comming back...HARD?

12:26 / 12.09.01

In Star Wars:
How would the Empire's media
have reported the destruction
of the Death Star?

The Sinister Haiku Bureau

12:26 / 12.09.01

quote:Originally posted by Rage:

Are there any options besides war and "sitting back and taking it."? My dad says that if we "sat back and take it" thousands and thousands more civilians will be killed because our country will newly be seen as weak and easy.

Feel free to dismiss this as pure,unrealistic, utopian fantasy- its my idea and I certainly do- but as someone who believes that the causes of war are fundamentally material- people wanting better living conditions, rather than ideological- I'd like to see those causes addressed. I'd like to see the U.S. Government spend a huge chunk of its (huge)military budget using the army to help build hospitals and distribute food (and so forth) (while still allowing those nations complete control over the running of their country) in these 'rogue states' so that any leader who critises the US gains no popular support whatsoever. I'd like to see the US government try to make up for anything it's done (in certain nations eyes, at least) to 'deserve' this, while simultaneously trying to track down Osama Bin Laden (or whoever). I'd like the US to use it's huge financial resources to be such all round good people that nobody would ever attack them because they like them so much, to improve the quality of living for everybody on this planet so much that war becomes impossible. Killing each other hasn't really gotten us anywhere, why not try the opposite?
</hippie utopianism>
(oh, and apologies if my dash and bracket nesting make that incoherent...)

12:26 / 12.09.01

quote:
In Star Wars:
How would the Empire's media
have reported the destruction
of the Death Star?

the Death Star was a secret weapon... only the rebels knew about it...

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