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00:49 / 15.12.01
I really don't know if this is already common knowledge and no one told me, but: What the hell happened with the Zenith TPB???

- Mercury
The Sinister Haiku Bureau
13:07 / 15.12.01
Yeah, I was in Waterstones and there was some promotional bumpf for all the GNs/TPBs coming out and it was on the list, but then I asked at a comic store and they said it was delayed 'because they hadn't got permission from the artists/writers'. I don't know if this is true or not, but it's what i was told.if anybody who know any better would like to update/correct or what have you....
Tom Coates
13:17 / 15.12.01
Oh god that's a shame. I was really looking forward to those...
13:58 / 15.12.01
This is merely what i believe the case to be, but...

Grant morrison signed a comissioning contract that did not even recognise the possibility that the work might be reprinted later.

In effect that contract covere the characters and first english language rights only. All other rights are left undefined, but in magazine publishing it is usual that, unless the comissioning contract clearly states otherwise, it only covers use in that magazine. ie first english language rights.

Since aquiring 2000AD Rebellion have wanted to bring the comic's characters to a wider audience both with multimedia tie-ins and reprints of the best stories, but being a bit more business savvy than the people that previously handled the 2000AD collections, they also wanted to make sure they had the full legal rights to reprint all their stories. In the process of these enquiries, the uncertain legal position of any reprints rebellion may wish to put out there became apparent.

It is my belief that Morrison Yowell and Rebellion will eventually come to some agreement and the reprints will come out.

AS i have said at the beginning of the post, this is my understanding of the situation and I would be more than happy if anyone has any additional information.
Spatula Clarke
18:37 / 15.12.01
Amazon have the release dates for Phase 1 as 28th December and Phase 2 as 22nd March.
Captain Zoom
20:41 / 15.12.01
All I know is that my order for the trades was cancelled this week on my invoice. There's been no re-solicitation as far as I know.

yawn - thing's buddy
20:25 / 18.12.01
Ah ys. Zenith. Really, truly, GM's finest work ever. (time running both directions, or not existing etc. allows us to appreciate that GM has not necessarily got worse at comicking).

Every liddle ting explored elsewhere by GM is right here in sltartling black and white yeowell draw - fruck!

Effry wun of you who does not have this title, must buy it soon. Fuck the trades - don't wait - go buy some 2000ADs


535 to 550 - phase 1

555-556 (I think) - interlude thing

589-607 roughly - phase 2

626-dunno, 645 or summat - phase 3

then what, 790-808 or therabouts for the final book, which is in colour unfortunately but the art is still shite-hot and the writing, well, total class in a glass (thingie), really.

man - let it be said:

zenith = gm worldview - euclidian geometry style

invisibles = gm view world fractal geometry style.

thanks for bearing with awful net wank type talk.

suit finding voice.

fuck off
Jack Fear
14:44 / 19.12.01
Suit trying too hard.
yawn - thing's buddy
16:52 / 19.12.01
just coz you hang wid Paulie Auster don't mean you down, geddit?
yawn - thing's buddy
16:53 / 19.12.01
yeah. I know. still trying too hard
Jack Fear
16:59 / 19.12.01
I only criticize out of love, man.
23:01 / 19.12.01
quote:Effry wun of you who does not have this title, must buy it soon. Fuck the trades - don't wait - go buy some 2000ADs

Yeah, you try finding back issues of 2000AD in the states. I still haven't finished reading the Zenith story as I moved halfway through it and the comic shop in Virginia oddly enough wasn't quite as good as the one I went to in New York. (And the one here in New Orleans is freakin' pathetic)

I can't wait for the Trade Paperback to come out. Finally find out what the hell it was all about!
16:11 / 20.12.01
Hadnít heard that about the contract, Sleaze Ė since there were previous Titan volumes of the series, however, Iíd kind of assumed it was the usual 2000AD contract (all rights forever, etc). Would have thought that this different kind of contract would have been remarked upon earlier, as itís my understanding that Alan Moore wanted a better deal on Halo Jones before writing any more series; had Morrison and Yeowell got a different deal at the time, Iím surprised that there wasnít the same kind of flexibility to give Moore and Gibson this sort of contract for Halo (think Iíve phrased that badly, but hopefully you know what I mean).
And as I seem to remember Zenith was also reprinted in the ĎQualityí comics range of 2000AD reprints, was that done non-contractually ?

16:33 / 20.12.01
well i think its more of a case that rebellion wanted their legal position to be absolutely watertight before they did anything not that Morrison's contract was special. I believe it was just that he pointed out that reprint rights were not specified in the orginal standard contract.

Having said that i have not seen 2000AD contracts of that vintage, also I cannot remember where i heard this (which marks verification a bit of a problem, and could be entirely) and as i said before i could be wrong - if so, someone please correct me!
Twig the Wonder Kid
16:44 / 01.02.04

Okay, it's a dirty swipe of capitalist intent, but I'd rather they went to a barbelither than anyone else.

I've just put phase II of Zenith on ebay:
10:59 / 02.02.04
Hmm Zenith film , he he !! That would be good !

(Just this time dont kill a certain charcter so quickly and in such a crap way !)

Ill start on the screen play now
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
17:54 / 02.02.04
You have to update it a bit, like. Cast G-g-g-g-g-gareth G-g-g-g-g-g-gates in the lead role.

That said, I think the characters in Zenith are as common today as they were then- s'fucking depressing, huh?

What did anyone make of Grant's mad little prolouge in prog 2000?
18:59 / 02.02.04
Funny i always thought Robbie William would be perfet for Zenith (dont know why !)

David Bowie as Mandella .

But stumpted for Voltage and Red Dragon (who was my favorite character of the series ).

The 2000 issue special , i thought was just Grant killing it off ?
17:16 / 03.02.04

I am now going to be a total arse. Apologies.

But the completist/comicshop guy part of me has to point out that the 'Best of 2000AD' issues don't contain the whole of Phase II. There are at least 2 progs missing - an introduction and the interlude, which first introduces the Chimera character.

I know this because I stumbled upon one of the Titan books back when I still owned the Bo2KAD prints of phase II and flipped through it. Since it was already OOP and the other volume wasn't there I didn't buy it. And then, of course, I lent the Bo2KADs to a friend who either lost or destroyed them (I now forget which). Grrr.

That said, none of the missing progs are that critical to enjoying the story.

I'm not in the UK and don't want to buy Sterling just now (have you seen what the dollar is doing??? Ugh.) or I'd definitely bid on these.

Good luck with your auction.
17:25 / 03.02.04
i'm sure i saw the interlude 'tygers' in one of those crappy colOr US reprints...

could be wrong though. part of the fun of zenith is its format, the cliffhanger every five pages, the side-stories and origins that appeared in the annuals/specials that don't fit into the Phase (n) pattern. hell to find though.
20:03 / 03.02.04
"But the completist/comicshop guy part of me has to point out that the 'Best of 2000AD' issues don't contain the whole of Phase II. There are at least 2 progs missing - an introduction and the interlude, which first introduces the Chimera character."

Nah - The first two Interlude stories which is what you must be thinking of, were reprinted as the end of Phase I when Bo2K did that, around the issue 100 mark I think. Phase II is complete, to the best of my knowledge. And you got a free Zenith stickers with those reprint issues.

Hope that helps.
Haus of Mystery
20:16 / 03.02.04
Completism abounds. There was a trippy little Mandala solo in the 1990(?) 2000ad annual with keraaaazy Jim McCarthy art, and a Maximan solo in the 89 Winter Special with appallingly unsuitable euro-art. And a shit Mark Millar text piece thats got bugger all to do with trhe main story.
22:05 / 03.02.04
Not to mention the contents page of a Sci-Fi special that was decked out in polaroids taken at one of Zenith's parties.

Or Zenith's interview in Select magazine
Haus of Mystery
22:19 / 03.02.04
Damn you Douglas! You're right.
22:40 / 03.02.04
Ha! - the curse of a near photographic memory and a mis-spent youth. To think, I could have been copping off with girls, instead of being able to remember that there was aslo a "Whatever Happened to... Zenith" pin-up in one on the Winter specials.

It keeps me awake at night, it really does.
22:44 / 03.02.04
Nah - The first two Interlude stories which is what you must be thinking of, were reprinted as the end of Phase I when Bo2K did that, around the issue 100 mark I think. Phase II is complete, to the best of my knowledge. And you got a free Zenith stickers with those reprint issues.

Well, I'm telling you. I used to own those comics and, at the time I owned them, I flipped through one of the two Titan Zenith books for Phase II and there was definitely material in there that was not in the Bo2KAD issues. It may not have "officially" been part of Phase II but it was in the Titan trade.

That is all.
23:00 / 03.02.04
Bo2K reprints Phase I & the two interludes as one story, and then about a year later did Phase II. The Titan books have Phase I in Volume 1, and then the interludes & Phase II in Volumes 2 & 3. So if you only saw the Bo2K Phase II, you would never have seen the interludes until you saw the books.

So it was all in Bo2K, but in a slightly different configuration.
17:04 / 04.02.04

Aaaaah. That explains it. I have the Titan vols 1 (Phase I), 4 and 5 (Phase III in two parts) and most of the 2000AD issues covering Phase IV. It's kind of a patchwork collection.

Still hoping to find the Titan Phase II books on eBay one of these days.
00:34 / 10.02.04
The full reprint set is up on ebay- better hurry, it's got 4 hours to go:
00:39 / 14.02.04
I won a set of the 2000AD issues for Phase IV on Ebay a month or so ago and they JUST arrived from the UK. Wow. Phase IV is the scarcest and least read, yet best of the bunch for me. And so so so like the Invisibles. Like the revelatory final arc stuff especially. It even has a counting in reverse motif running through it with Peyne's journal. And Iok Sotot and beings existing in all time. and trying to remember...

was so fun to finally read this story. and so weird to read it AFTER absorbing the invisibles and flex mentallo etc, considering Zenith is the first time Grant really laid down his metaphysics and its my last major series of his to read.

so is this stuff ever getting reprinted? It so needs to be. And I liked/was surprised that Phase IV was colored unlike the other phases. Were the trades colored? my copies are the comic sized ones for phase 1 and 2 and the 2000 issues for iii and iv. and ive still never seen the later interludes or story...
01:07 / 14.02.04
the rest is all balck and white - outside of the cover 2000ad was pretty much a back and white comic until the early 90s - now the only time they do b/w stuff is when it suits the art - as for other unread morrison classics, how about DARE or the black zoid saga...
01:36 / 14.02.04
I know the original 2000 ad run of zenith1->3 was BnW, but were the original trades colored? i could swear I've seen an image of the Lloigor on the net from phase 3 that was all colorific...

I picked up copies of Dare on the cheap in a Seattle comic shop years ago. i cant even really remember it much right now. was it memorable for you?

Never read the Zoids stuff. what is it exactly and is it collected or just in scarce and overpriced uk mag formats? And is it any good or just early corporate work? wasnt spiderman in it or something?

Aside from that, I think the only stuff I havent read by GM now is a few random 2000 ad stories (though i picked up some reprints in that TimeTwisters comic-sized thingee), including any and all Dredd stuff he wrote, and The New adventures of Hitler. That one I know I need to find, but where the hell do you get copies of Crisis? And chance THAT will get reprinted?

And yes, I have the Action Force GI Joe issue where Grant writes a QuickKick/ShangChi story. ugh.
02:17 / 14.02.04
the collections are b&W too

the zoids strips (from spiderman and zoids comic) was a corporate comic that established many morrison themes and motifs - but yes overpriced and obscure/hard to get hold of something that is equally true of morrison's first comic work in near myths where he introduced gideon stargrave...

crisis - prolly your best bet is ebay - I think the rights on the strips from that prolly belong to the creators- so maybe we'll see a collection some day

on the action force tip there is another story he did featuring storm shadow.

the big dave strips from 2000AD are another fun set of stories that needs to be collected, but prolly won't until 2000ad and morrison sort out the rights issues.

and there is the steed and mrs peel thing he did for eclipse.

apparently he also wrote a kid miracleman story for warrior but it was never published at the time because alan moore wanted to be the only series writer at the time - and the current miracleman situation means we are prolly unlikely to ever see it.
02:41 / 14.02.04
Ive got the steed and mrs peel issues, as well as the Near Myths run. Those have been popping up on ebay quite a bit recently if anyone is looking, and dont seem THAT rare or expensive considering what I expected when i started the hunt. I got em all for under $20. Actually theres a set RIGHT NOW for $15:

I also have one of the doctor Who things he did as well as the Sunrise comics, both of which have been on ebay a lot recently too, if not kinda expensive for relatively unremarkable work:

MileHighComics seems to have a bunch of those TimeTwister issues that reprint the Tharg Future shock's Grant wrote BTW.

The zoids and crisis stuff Ive never seen listed on Ebay, but Ill keep looking. If Zoids really does have Morrison themes in the black Zoid story, I really need to track it down, though Im more sceptical of finding these as a lot. There IS a site I found that has scans of the Hitler story and Zoids though, as well as NearMyths stories. I hadnt got around to reading the scans yet:

i realize we are straying a bit off zenith here into GM oddities, but whats the gist of Big Dave? I dont have any of that 2000ad stuff either.

mmm, stormshadow. heh.
Jack Fear
03:58 / 14.02.04
The initial phases of ZENITH were serialized in an American anthology book of 2000AD strips called, cunningly, 2000AD PRESENTS. Color was added (usually to atrocious effect); this is the probable source of the color Lloigor image you've seen on the 'net.

New covers were also commissioned, and were mostly terrible.

I had the issues covering Phases One and Two. Tom Coates has my copies now, I think.

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