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Doctor Who, Season Four, Non-spoiler Thread

 
  

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Kali is proud of her country
(prev. Always Pro Neil Gaiman Kali)
15:14 / 01.06.08
Speculation only, NOT SPOILER:

If this season's Big Bad does turn out to be You-Know-Who, is anyone else a bit worried that they'll run through all the familiar villains too soon?
 
 
osymandus
15:47 / 01.06.08
Just means they can 1) Make new ones
2) Kill off some (foprever please) some old ones

Fantastic episode .
 
 
Kali is proud of her country
(prev. Always Pro Neil Gaiman Kali)
16:12 / 01.06.08
But isn't that part of the fun, watching familiar villains of old recreated into new forms?
 
 
All Acting Regiment
17:54 / 01.06.08
The danger of bringing back old villains is doing them badly and spoiling them forever, possibly. Consider the proposed alterations to the Daleks that were going to be in the McGann film:

 
 
The Impoverished Llama
18:48 / 01.06.08
I appreciate not being called a berk, thanks.
 
 
A Haus of Minions
19:03 / 01.06.08
Notwithstanding, I'd suggest letting those who have not seen the mid-season trailer and do not wish to know the key elements of the trailer continue in their ignorance in this thread, since it contained really quite big things.
 
 
Stoat-ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH
19:03 / 01.06.08
Also apologies for my general shoutiness, Llama- I didn't know that shit had been in a trailer, because I try not to watch them. And I was very drunk.
 
 
The Impoverished Llama
20:45 / 01.06.08
I'd like to point out that I didn't actually bring up the Rose trailer, Whiskey Priestess did.

Anyway. One of the things I liked about last night's episode was the little girl curiously examining the hidden part of the remote control. That always seemed like the forbidden part of the controller to me when I was younger, and usually caused the tv to do insane things, which was nicely reflected by the chaos it caused in the library. It also tied in with the forbidden secrets theme of River's TARDIS-like notebook, the spoiler books, etc.
 
 
Boboss
21:51 / 01.06.08
From the trailer for next week's episode:

Professor River Song: "I really hate you sometimes"
The Doctor: "I know"

Makes me wonder if she isn't, in fact, a future incarnation of the Doctor. I know, wishful thinking, and I don't know anything, and I should probably just shut up.
 
 
Kali is proud of her country
(prev. Always Pro Neil Gaiman Kali)
23:39 / 01.06.08
Oh sweet Lord, those Dalek re-imaginings are terrible.
Brrr.

In re: to the new trailer: surely speculating is not the same as having actual spoilers? I mean, I would understand if one of us had an in with the folks who create it and were told, "No, for serious, Rose becomes a mercenary and does this and this," and after the trailer aired, the person who had been told this was going, "Aha! Y'see, I knew that was going to happen because I was told."

If we can't speculate on what's going to happen in the coming episodes, it sort of spoils all the fun. What does that leave us to talk about?
 
 
El Directo
23:45 / 01.06.08
Makes me wonder if she isn't, in fact, a future incarnation of the Doctor. I know, wishful thinking, and I don't know anything, and I should probably just shut up.

Doubtful innit unless she'd had her memories wiped.
 
 
I scream for ice cream
00:27 / 02.06.08
Makes me wonder if she isn't, in fact, a future incarnation of the Doctor.

Doubtful innit unless she'd had her memories wiped.


Doubly doubtful unless he's been on a picnic with his future self. And is prone to calling himself "sweetie".

Christ, but that'd get the shippers in a lather.
 
 
Brigade du jour
00:32 / 02.06.08
I'm with Boboss on this one - I think it's at least possible that she could be a future Doctor. After all, it wouldn't be too out of the character for the Doctor to speak to 'himself' in the second person, would it? She probably doesn't want to just blurt out "Hey, you're me! Wicked!", does she? At least not until next week, in a moment of great stress. Better to be a bit vague at this point, that's what I do when I meet my past selves.
 
 
Feverfew
10:33 / 02.06.08
One thing though - if she were to be a future incarnation of the Doctor, why would she need The Book to keep track of all their meetings, past, present and future?

Unless I'm crediting the Doctor with a better memory than that would imply?
 
 
Boboss
10:57 / 02.06.08
Hey, I'm not exactly with me on this one, I just heard that snippet of dialogue and thought it would be a cool idea. I didn't actually watch the latest episode very closely so I'm not in a good position to critique my suggestion.
 
 
A Haus of Minions
11:57 / 02.06.08
River Song is carrying a Captain Jackish sonic pistol, albeit one she has only used on a wall so far, which seems, since Moffat generally pays attention to this sort of thing, pretty convincing evidence that she isn't the Doctor, but rather one of the many, many people who have had to get tooled up in order to preserve his holier-than-thou pacifism.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
13:13 / 02.06.08
I'd like to point out that I didn't actually bring up the Rose trailer, Whiskey (sic) Priestess did.

I did, I did, mea culpa if anyone gives a fuck any more. Spanked wrist for me. But seeing as it's already aired, like Saturday's episode, I understand it's fair game for discussion.

Speaking of which - much as I am moist with excitement at the idea that River Song (echoes of Firefly there?) is a once-and-future Doctor, when he asks her about the sonic screwdriver (I think she has one of those too, right?) she says "You gave it to me," which even if she were addressing her past self in the second person, implies pretty strongly that the two of them are not one.
 
 
Fly Beezy (War Minister)
13:17 / 02.06.08
If River Song is a future incarnation of the Doctor, rather than a future companion, I will change my username to 'What A Buster!' and post only but regularly in Late Shift threads for a month.
 
 
A Haus of Minions
14:02 / 02.06.08
she says "You gave it to me,"

I think that pretty much tells us all we need to know. It's Iris Wildthyme, and she's done him.
 
 
Brigade du jour
15:26 / 02.06.08
Ahhh screw it, she's Keyser Soze. But back to the plot!
 
 
Our Lady Won't Do That Again
15:32 / 02.06.08
Yes, if she were the Doctor why all that 'we've never met before' nonsense and, as 'Time Crash' showed, the Doctor doesn't particularly mind telling his past selves all the gossip.
 
 
A Haus of Minions
16:41 / 02.06.08
Time slash, more like.
 
 
E. Randy Dupre
16:43 / 02.06.08
She'd also know Donna, without having to be told who she was.

I'm with Stoatie on this week's. All of the elements were there in the plot for a creepy episode, but it never quite pulled it off. The lighting is nearly always plain bad in New Who, and that was the cause of some of the loss of atmosphere here. There weren't anough quiet moments, not enough time given over to the audience's imagination. And skeleton in a spacesuit should have been a great image - it normally is - but looked a bit plastic and Halloween.

It's a shame, because I get the feeling that the story worked much better as a script.

On the spoilers discussion> We've been through this I don't know how many times, and it's generally been agreed that trailers do count as spoilers. If that makes any difference. I've lost the energy to kick off about it, though, given that somebody always manages to disregard other people's wishes not to have the rest of the series given away.
 
 
E. Randy Dupre
16:54 / 02.06.08
Oh, and I get the impression that River Song isn't going to be anybody hugely major in the bigger picture, because that'd require Alex Kingston's return to the series at some point, as well as David Tennant staying on until then, both of which strike me as unlikely to happen.
 
 
gridley
17:50 / 02.06.08
In the flashbacks in "Love and Monsters," I believe someone in Elton's family was killed by a living shadow? Vashtanarada perhaps?

he might be one of the Doctor's future incarnations. He seems to know the library is real and in Teh Future, he's called Doctor, etc. Plus the fact that the subplot of the episode(s) seems to be River Song knows of one of his future selves, whether it's Tennant or not

That's an interesting theory, but my assumption is that little girl was one of the people in the library when it was evacuated and the library stored her consciousness (and everone else's) wherever there was room for it. Thus making Doctor Moon some sort of hallucination.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
18:04 / 02.06.08
as well as David Tennant staying on until then

Not at all. River could easily have met him in one of his future incarnations, but recognise his Doctory essence even when he's got a different body.

And Moon ... River ... is there an Andy Williams theme to this episode?

Agree about the skeletons. They were not at all scary. Much better just to have had darkness inside the helmet, IMHO.
 
 
El Directo
18:11 / 02.06.08
That's an interesting theory, but my assumption is that little girl was one of the people in the library when it was evacuated and the library stored her consciousness (and everone else's) wherever there was room for it. Thus making Doctor Moon some sort of hallucination.

I'm more of the opinion that the little girl is the Library's sentient computer and has been traumatised by witnessing the feeding frenzy. When she refers to the 4000-odd *saved* people, she means just that: she was able to save the ones that used the teleporter in her memory banks rather than let them beam off world, effectively having a hand in the quarantining process.
 
 
E. Randy Dupre
19:07 / 02.06.08
Not at all. River could easily have met him in one of his future incarnations, but recognise his Doctory essence even when he's got a different body.

Yeah, possibly. It's not something that the show's done before - even Rose didn't recognise him post-regeneration - but yeah, it'd work.

Actually, the whole bit of 'future companion' is something that (afaik) has never been explored before, which is surprising. If wise. New Who has been pretty quick to build up its own continuity, presumably as a result of following the Buffy model, and it'd be a little annoying to find it tying itself in knots over something like this. There's also the danger of doing a Captain Scarlett and removing any sense of mortal danger from episodes - we know the Doctor survives this one, because he's not met River Song yet. Makes me wonder if the people running the show are working to a proposed cut-off date.

Agree about the skeletons. They were not at all scary. Much better just to have had darkness inside the helmet, IMHO.

The whole thing could have done with being a lot darker, a lot fuzzier around the edges. They used loads of blue light in this episode and it made everything too sharp. Haunted houses aren't swathed in blue neon. Their shadows aren't clearly defined. And for an episode where the evil is the shadows, getting that wrong is a problem.

Tate was aces again. It's not what I expected to happen, but, when Donna's been used properly by the writers, she's given all of the episodes in this series the kind of human impact that was missing in the previous two years.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
19:40 / 02.06.08
I can see your problem with the lighting, but then they had to make the shadows prominent, didn't they?
 
 
Fly Beezy (War Minister)
20:03 / 02.06.08
I don't see the problem with the lighting at all. Have watched the episode twice and thought the atmosphere was spot on.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
20:07 / 02.06.08
Definitely better than the purple and green splotchiness of recent episodes, I thought. I can see that it wasn't conducive to 'haunted house', but in itself, I thought it worked.
 
 
Stoat-ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH
20:17 / 02.06.08
I was really drunk when I saw it, and will watch again today (but am still not exactly sober), but I just assumed that the spoilers meant that she was actually Rose, rather than a future Doctor. I have no idea how that would work plotwise, but she did look kind of like an older Rose to me.
 
 
Kali is proud of her country
(prev. Always Pro Neil Gaiman Kali)
20:19 / 02.06.08
It definitely creeped me out, enough where I was started thinking about what the Doctor said about the Vashta Nerada too much when it came time for bed.
 
 
E. Randy Dupre
20:37 / 02.06.08
I can see your problem with the lighting, but then they had to make the shadows prominent, didn't they?

Oh, yeah. I mean that the contrast between light and shadow was a bit too much, imo - that's what I was on about with the blurry edges stuff. I like my shadows to seep, so that the edges become less well-defined. Trying to stay out of the dark is that much more frightening if you're not entirely sure where the light ends.

I don't know if I'm really explaining this very well, or if it's just a personal thing. Compare it with the Weeping Angels episode, where the light was much more natural and everything was given that much more tension as a result.
 
 
Kali is proud of her country
(prev. Always Pro Neil Gaiman Kali)
22:07 / 02.06.08
Yeah, the bit where Sally Sparrow and wossface were in the basement and the lights started to swing and make everything puzzling and frightening....
 
  

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