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Stephen Grasso and English Hoodoo

  
  

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Cat Black (The Wizard's Hat)
02:13 / 15.01.07
Wikipedia says:
"Stephen Grasso (b. 1979) is a British writer and occultist. Originally from Newcastle, he now lives in Herne Hill, London from where he writes predominantly about the occult and situationist material.

Examples of his work can be found in the book Generation Hex, published by Disinfo in 2005. He is renowned as a lecturer and one of the co-founders of the English Hoodoo faction of London occultists."

Grasso contributed three essays to Generation Hex. I liked all of them a great deal, and resonated especially with the third, "Dreams of a Midwich Planet," which is one of the most beautiful and inspiring pieces of writing about magic that I have read in some time. After reading these essays and thinking a great deal about their implications (for my own practice and for the whole contemporary scene), I turned to the internet to find more information about Grasso and his work. All I have been able to find, though, is the above quote from Wikipedia and a website, Molotovia, which either no longer really exists or has been down for months.

As for English Hoodoo, I haven't been able to find anything but football commentary. I get the impression from Grasso's writing that in addition to Hoodoo he also practices an Afro-Caribbean religion, possibly Vodoun.

Since many of the posters on this forum live in the UK, and some are involved in Afro-Caribbean traditions and Hoodoo, I am hoping that someone out there has more information than I do on this subject. So, please, any information, thoughts, experiences with Stephen Grasso, his work, and/or "the English Hoodoo faction of London occultists?"

My apologies in advance if this has been discussed before; I tried searching the forum but didn't find anything. Also, I hope it is okay to post this as a new thread rather than tacking it on to one of the old Hoodoo threads. I have been lurking around the Temple for several months now, but this is my first post.

Also, for anyone who is unfamiliar with Grasso's work and doesn't have Generation Hex -- one of his essays is available here, on Phil Hine's website.

Thanks!
 
 
trouser the trouserian
07:37 / 15.01.07
So, please, any information, thoughts, experiences with Stephen Grasso...

He's had my copy of of Half-Life 1 for well over a year now. And its not like he's played it or anything. He's just hanging onto it for nefarious hoodoo purposes.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
14:24 / 15.01.07
I don't know this "Graso" of whom you speak, but right now, I bet he's very embarassed.
 
 
Rex Feral
14:32 / 15.01.07
He's a mate of mine and we go down the pub together. We occasionally injure each other doing drunken martial arts. Far too infrequently, we go out dancing to reggae and soul music. He's got my Dave Turton DVDs. What more do you want to know?

I don't know if people who start these threads think about how profundly embarassing it is to be on the receiving end of one of them

In view of protecting posters anoymity/privacy, I'm going to propose a lock for this thread. I will see how Steve and the other mods feel about it.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
14:35 / 15.01.07
If you think there is mileage for a thread based on something specific that an author has written, it might be better to focus on the ideas themselves - or even better, a well thought-out critique of them - if you want the thread to go anywhere.

Otherwise you will just get information about the author's alleged inability to return computer games, martial arts DVDs, reggae soundclash minidisks, and suchlike. Furthermore, if the items in question are being used as integral components of a gigantic living spider's web altar made of steel wool, breakfast cereal and goose feathers - designed to subtly modify and control the thoughts and behaviour of their former owners in ways that they cannot begin to guess at or imagine - then drawing attention to this fact merely problematises the larger endgame that is currently in motion.
 
 
EmberLeo
14:36 / 15.01.07
I don't know if people who start these threads think about how profundly embarassing it is to be on the receiving end of one of them

I think I'm missing something - It's embarassing to be on the recieving end of somebody wanting to discuss your public and published works?

--Ember--
 
 
Rex Feral
14:39 / 15.01.07
If you found a Wikipedia entry entitled "Emberleo", discussing your personal habits, and then discovered a load of people speculating on same on the internet, how would you feel?
 
 
EmberLeo
14:43 / 15.01.07
Sorry, my last post dysfractionated with the one above it that already kind of answered my question.

But to answer yours:

If it was my personal habits, that'd be a bit different than if it was work I had deliberately put out in public.

I admit, my embarassment levels would depend on several things, including how serious folks were being, and how accurate their assessment was, and which habits they were discussing. But that's not really the point, is it?

I thought the thread was for discussing the public work, not the private life - hence my confusion as to why that would be embarassing.

--Ember--
 
 
Rex Feral
16:15 / 15.01.07
Okay, I've discussed it with the "recepient" of the thread's focus, and he is happy for it to remain unlocked, but with the caveat that we focus on his ideas rather than on personal information. I've going to put a post about the issues concerned in "Moderating the Temple" in Policy.
 
 
Rex Feral
17:55 / 15.01.07
See Policy for discussion.
 
 
Cat Black (The Wizard's Hat)
19:03 / 15.01.07
Wow, I must say, I never would have expected my post to elicit this kind of response.

I don't know if people who start these threads think about how profundly embarassing it is to be on the receiving end of one of them

Why would it be embarrassing for a published author to have his work discussed on an internet forum? Sorry if I didn't make it completely clear in my OP, but I am not asking about (or interested in) what Grasso does on Friday nights or whether or not he returns his friends' video games.

EmberLeo was correct in assuming that I was interested in Grasso's public works (i.e. writings, lectures, and other public participation in the magical scene). Eggs: I included the Wikipedia post for those who might have no idea who Stephen Grasso is. The only personal information it includes is where he was born and what area of London he lives in. The rest is concerned with his work (that is, his published writing, lectures, and involvement with English Hoodoo). You and trouser were the ones posting (potentially embarrassing) information about his private life. Then again, you're his friends, and if someone asked about one my buddies on a forum, I might crack a joke as well. In all fairness, I can see how you might get the impression that I was interested in Grasso's personal life based on this part of my post:

So, please, any information, thoughts, experiences with Stephen Grasso...

That, however, is only half a sentence. Given the context of the rest of my post, though, I had hoped that it was fairly clear that I was asking about Grasso's activities as a writer, lecturer, and teacher and about English Hoodoo. I am not trying to blame you for misinterpreting; miscommunication takes two to tango and I acknowledge that my original post could have been more specific.

Two-headed rude boy: Heh, thanks. I will be sure to keep that in mind from now on ;-)

I should have been more specific about what I was asking. On that note, here's a short list of questions for discussion:

1. What's up with Molotovia? Is it pretty much permanently out of commission? Does Grasso have any other public web presence?

2. Where, if anywhere, can I find more of Grasso's written work?

3. What is English Hoodoo? What, if anything, distinguishes it from American Hoodoo? In theory? In practice? Can anyone point me toward more information?

Again, thanks.
 
 
Cat Black (The Wizard's Hat)
19:09 / 15.01.07
Eggs: Just read your discussion on the moderation thread. I had no idea that Grasso was a Barbelith member. I can see how that would complicate things just a little bit. Anyway, thanks for not locking the thread; I am genuinely curious about the above questions.
 
 
Blake Head
19:41 / 15.01.07
A small introduction to English Hoodoo here.
 
 
El Directo
20:06 / 15.01.07
Best thread ever.
 
 
Stoatie. Stoatie? STOATIE.
20:16 / 15.01.07
I don't know if people who start these threads think about how profundly embarassing it is to be on the receiving end of one of them

Eggs, to be fair, I don't think Cat Black knew there may have been any Barbelith connection, therefore was only doing the same as any of us do when starting a thread about Pynchon/George Morrison/Toots and the Maytals.
 
 
Rex Feral
20:34 / 15.01.07
Entirely true, Stoats, but it's all good now....

2. Where, if anywhere, can I find more of Grasso's written work?

I think the best place would be digging into the archives of a certain message board...

3. What is English Hoodoo? What, if anything, distinguishes it from American Hoodoo? In theory? In practice? Can anyone point me toward more information?

You might find Owen Davis' book on Cunning Men useful in this regard. Of course, there is no truth in the rumour that a copy of this which was once mine was half-inched by Grasso and some of his English Hoodoo "chums"...
 
 
XK
20:48 / 15.01.07
Best thread ever.

it really is.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
21:02 / 15.01.07
I am reliably informed that:

1. Molotovia went down and Grasso didn't bother to put it back up again as it mostly contained his earlier comics work, with only one or two bits of writing on magic. To relaunch it would involve him doing webdesign, which he apparently doesn't like, to put up material that more accurately reflects the current main focus of his interest. He would rather spend that time writing. He should probably get a myspace page or something but the idea of doing that makes him feel slightly sick, apparently.

2. He had a peice on ancestor worship in a recent journal called "Dreamflesh", which is a great publication that deserves a place in every home. He occasionally does talks at Treadwells, which is a great second-hand occult bookstore, that everyone who finds themselves in London should make the effort to check out. He is working on more stuff and it will be ready when it is ready.

3. "English Hoodoo", as far as I am aware, was just a word bandied around the pub a few times, as a shorthand for describing the circumstance of practising Voodoo on English soil. Specifically the living syncretism that begins to take place between the method of African Diaspora magico-religious tradition and the folk magic of the place where you are practicing it. Goodness knows how the term got onto the internet. Grasso says he has a few misgivings about this, as it currently exists as an empty buzzword attached to his name that can easily be filled with all sorts of meanings he did not intend.
 
 
*
21:20 / 15.01.07
Best thread ever.

Thirded. Suddenly feel quite warm about Barbelith again, but not to worry. I have pills left over from the last time I came down with this.
 
 
El Directo
21:43 / 15.01.07
There's a thread detailing Grasso's year spent progressing through the Vodou Tantra Rocksteady Workbook with Pipecock Jackson here.
 
 
EmberLeo
22:46 / 15.01.07
"English Hoodoo", as far as I am aware, was just a word bandied around the pub a few times, as a shorthand for describing the circumstance of practising Voodoo on English soil

Oh dear, that's actually kind of confusing. I've had it drilled into my head pretty thoroughly that Hoodoo and Voodoo are not interchangeable. Hoodoo is the system of afrodiasporic folk magic. Voodoo is a religion of service to the Lwa.

I suppose if what is being highlighted by the term is what happens to local UK folk magic when Voodoo values and mindset are brought in to influence it, that still makes sense, though.

--Ember--
 
 
Blake Head
23:58 / 15.01.07
Goodness knows how the term got onto the internet.

You mean the internet is not the font of all wisdom? Oh dear.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
01:29 / 16.01.07
Yeah, hoodoo is African Diaspora folk magic, and Vodou is service to the Lwa. Although those distinctions can become a bit blurry when you have practitioners who happen to practice both. For instance, New Orleans Voodoo is heavily influenced by hoodoo folk magic but it also involves the Lwa and even the Orisha. You get people practising New Orleans Voodoo who are also full initiates in orthodox Haitian Vodou, and you get people practising it who are not. New Orleans Voodoo and Haitian Vodou are different beasts, with a different character and an emphasis specific to the City and its culture.

I think the phrase "english hoodoo" came about to describe the feeling of practicing both Voodoo and hoodoo in a land that is already steeped in half-forgotten magic of its own. It is as if the living mystery religion recognises something of itself in the sleeping mysteries of the landscape, and wants to reach out and make some kind of connection to them.

I don't think it was ever intended to be the name of some new form of magic, like "chaos magic" or "wicca", so much as a word used at a particular time to convey that sense of plugging into the mysteries of a place and its ancestors. Voodoo is very much concerned with place and ancestors and you cannot write them out of the picture and pretend you are someone else in another place. If you are pouring rum in an English cemetery, it's going to be the spirits of dead English people you ultimately end up dealing with. If you are working at an old crossroads in London, the history and spirits of that place are going to be a factor. Voodoo is a living tradition and therefore the circumstances of where you actually happen to be practicing it, the land and its spirits, should not be overlooked. Hence "english hoodoo" came about as a term to describe this quiet process of developing a deep connection to English mysteries and magic, almost as a side-product of practicing Voodoo within that landscape. It was never meant to be as silly as wikipedia makes it sound, just a notion of something that had been observed, but that's the internet for you.

So I'm told, anyway.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
01:46 / 16.01.07
Best thread ever.

This is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen.
 
 
Stoatie. Stoatie? STOATIE.
01:51 / 16.01.07
It rocks, don't it?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
02:05 / 16.01.07
It really does. I actually cried - admittedly with laughter at the first few posts but they were loving tears. This thread definitely does not suck but then it's not about Goulash Matador.
 
 
EmberLeo
02:25 / 16.01.07
If you are pouring rum in an English cemetery, it's going to be the spirits of dead English people you ultimately end up dealing with.

That really appeals to me.

What really comes to my mind is what, exactly, do I get living in California on the land of the native Ohlone, Miwok, and Costanoan people, touching the spirits and ancestors of this land, touching my own ancestors of blood, AND touching the Lwa and Orixa, and the cultural mix that results from the fact that the SF Bay has been a port city attracting people from all over, and the various cultures have all long since affected eachother.

--Ember--
 
 
Old dear. Gin. Problems
(prev. Alex's Grandma)
04:58 / 16.01.07
I think if you're lucky enough to be given the opportunity to meet S Grasso in person, the best thing to do is buy him a few beers, plus dinner at 'The Ivy.'

Or so I say - of course I'm not 'really' S Grasso, and I think it would be really tacky for anyone to pretend otherwise. Wouldn't it?
 
 
Life Critic
05:07 / 16.01.07
he's more of a guiness man.
uh, so i hear.
 
 
Cat Black (The Wizard's Hat)
07:54 / 16.01.07
My hoodoo spider sense tells me I'm the butt of a cosmic in-joke. Don't worry, fellas, I'm taking it in stride. I have a feeling I know which one of you is Grasso -- not that it matters. Two-headed rude boy, your responses have been very helpful. Thanks. I am going to pick up that Dreamflesh journal, and the Cunning Folk book that Eggs mentioned.

I would like to talk some more about the syncretism that rude boy and EmberLeo are discussing, but that will have to wait until tomorrow. It is getting late and my head hurts (curse you, Seth and your secret beard thread! I should have known there was no such thing as a Vodou Tantra Rocksteady Workbook!)

Anyhow, suffice it to say that I'm honored to have started the best thread ever. Even if my noobish naivete is in part the cause of such mirth. Cheers!
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
10:47 / 16.01.07
I should have known there was no such thing as a Vodou Tantra Rocksteady Workbook!

Famous last words.
 
 
---
14:25 / 16.01.07
Sorry if I didn't make it completely clear in my OP, but I am not asking about (or interested in) what Grasso does on Friday nights or whether or not he returns his friends' video games.

Hahah.

This thread reminds me to get Generation Hex.
 
 
Life Critic
14:34 / 16.01.07
likewise.
they never sent me my free copy, the bastards.
 
 
Quantum
(prev. Quantum - terribly nonplussed)
16:21 / 16.01.07
He should probably get a myspace page

..and if he doesn't we can start a spoof one for him, eh?
 
 
Life Critic
16:25 / 16.01.07
if you can find the GIFZ, i can start the page.
do you have GIFZ?
 
  

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