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Cormac McCarthy

 
  

Page: 123(4)

 
 
Mark Parsons
04:42 / 12.12.07
Thanks for the gnostic tip, Ladies. I'm expecting to get to BM after I wrap up THE ROAD later tonight and will enjoy trying to experience it via a gnostic POV.

DEPT OF POSSIBLE MULTIPLE REDUNDANCIES: I have not read all the thead with attention, so this is probably old news: Ridley Scott is doing BLOOD MERIDIAN due in 2009.
 
 
Jack Fear
05:15 / 12.12.07
No shit, Sherlock.

Also (as I'd hoped my parenthetical "Maybe" made clear), I think there's a good chance that the Gnostic reading of Blood Meridian is probably a bit of overreaching, well-intentioned bullshit. The upshot of it—that the kid is less a monster than the Judge because he at least makes half-hearted and flailing attempts at human decency—resonates perfectly effectively even outside the framework of Gnostic archetypes.

The Gnostic reading doesn't even really bring anything new to the party, except to give us names—archon, pneuma—for things that we already understand. So, while I don't know for sure, because McCarthy ain't saying, I have my doubts that the work was consciously intended as a Gnostic parable.
 
 
Dusto
15:05 / 12.12.07
I don't know if it is a conscious Gnostic parable or not, but as such it would also give some sort of framework for a world in which ALL material reality is so "evil." And there does seem at least to be a mystic component of some sort. The Tarot bit, for instance, and pretty much all of the Judge's speeches. Though none of that is specifically Gnostic in content.
 
 
deja_vroom
17:21 / 12.12.07
Remember the part where the pinhead-freak-idiot is tied to a leash and walks on all fours through the desert while the Judge strolls happily about with an umbrella made of human skin, holding the aforementioned leash? The pinhead-freak-idiot is us. The Judge is - well, The Judge of All Things, who goes by many names, so name him what you will. Can't get more Gnostic than that.
 
 
deja_vroom
15:24 / 14.12.07
Just clarifying:

This is not about some biunivocal correspondence of terms or a punch-card type of scheme where you recognize elements in the story for which one could apply the terms and concepts of Gnosticism. This is the approach of the dry analytical type, the name-dropper, the memorizer who doesn't necessarily grasp the underlying concept which gives support to the structure. Because before being a structure of hermetic symbols, Gnosticism starts from a worldview, the essence of which lies in the heart of the "Blood Meridian": A fundamentally flawed creation, made by a cheater, with know-no-better humans flailing their arms about and hurting each other.

The book even signals to the redeeming aspect of this stance - the Gnosis, reaching for the God within which will elevate us from this mess; it's the scene where a stranger comes along, "freeing fire from the rocks" (eh, eh?) with some sort of instrument (but, tellingly, this scene isn't part of the story of the book, it comes in the Epilogue - we might not live to see the day when we'll be free, and indeed death might be a necessary step towards that goal). The man is most likely a railroad worker, but the symbolism is striking:

"In the dawn there is a man progressing over the plain by means of holes which he is making in the ground. He uses an implement with two handles and he chucks it into the hole and the enkindles the stone in the hole with his steel hole by hole striking the fire out of the rock which God has put there."
 
 
Jack Fear
16:11 / 14.12.07
Yeah, thanks for that. And yeah, that was pretty much what I was driving at: that while Blood Meridian may or may not have Gnostic worldview, I think it’s far too simplistic to view it as an allegory or a cosmic roman à clef, where possession the key—“Look, Holden is an archon and the kid is a potential pneuma and this thing stands for this and that stands for this and DO YOU SEE”—is used as a substitute for actual insight.

It’s far less tidy than that, and far more troubling, beginning with the fact that there really was a real Judge Holden who really did ride with the real John Joel Glanton. The Holden in the novel obviously isn’t the “real” Holden, inasmuch as such a portrayal would even be possible—since we know nothing of the historical Holden except his name, in an account written by an unreliable narrator—and he hews close to the model of an allegorical figure. And yet, and yet.

An interesting reading of the epilogue, there, though I’m not sure I buy it. I’ve always found that passage troubling, but I’ve never read it optimistically—perhaps because the novel has already shown us a glimpse of the passage of time and its effects on human nature, in the last proper chapter, which moves the action forward thirty-five years; if the kid, now grown to middle age, has succeeded in largely taming his violent instincts, then the next generation of kids—orphaned and set adrift in a sort of post-traumatic savagery by the events of the Civil War in the interim—are, if anything, more brutal and fucked-up than ever he was.

I think that delaying the kid’s final confrontation with the Judge by so many years does more than suggest the Judge’s immortality—it shows us that the passage of time isn’t doing anything to bring human nature any closer to enlightenment. And I see no strong textual evidence that the future of the epilogue will bring anything but more of the same old violence and scavenging.

Also not sure if I buy the notion of a fundamentally flawed creation—most of the horror of the landscape I read as the alienation of being a stranger in a strange land, as the kid is almost throughout. Then again, his home life, glimpsed briefly at the start, was also unremittingly hostile, so there may be something to your observation after all. Maybe there is no safe place, and all the world is always gonna be out to get you.
 
 
deja_vroom
23:54 / 16.12.07
Oh, I can identify with your exasperation.

It will not come as a surprise to you that Harold Bloom was the first to introduce the argument that BM was a Gnostic allegory... but, since the man is a professed Gnostic himself - as his late criticism starts to resemble some sort of hermetic codex rife with mystical extrapolations often too obscure for anyone to really bother, to the ridiculous point where you see yourself forced to attempt to perform an exegesis on what should be an exegesis (As for instance his "Genius", which charts the types of genius into the structure of the Tree of Life)- I was saying, since the man is a professed Gnostic himself.. how many grains of salt will you want with that, sir?

Also the fact that one doesn't expect that a really deep book will be so easily encapsulated in one comfortable world view, forever in suspended animation, impervious to contradictions, critical attacks or alternative analysis, exempt of the paradoxes that are so rich in the real world that the book tries to reflect...

The points you mentioned about all-out nihilism are very strong, of course, since Gnosticism implies at least a glimpse of redemption, and even though I do recall some acts of goodness from peripheral characters here and there throughout the story, they're too small, too insignificant to have much weight in the bigger picture. Maybe that is telling re: McCarthy's take on things. I remember one of the most touching scenes in the book is when the grown-up kid meets the mummified body of an old Indian woman, and, thinking she's just deep asleep, he starts talking to her, asking about her health and if there's anything he can do to help her ("Abuelita - he said - "no puedes escucharme?" "Abuelita, can't you hear me?"). His first act of outright compassion, and it was directed to a corpse.
 
 
Dusto
18:03 / 03.01.08
So I finished Blood Meridian over the break. I have decidedly mixed feelings about it. Spoilers follow.

Some parts were great, some parts were incredibly heavy-handed, sometimes at the same time. The bit with the Judge making gun powder was cool, for instance, but it played into the heavy-handedness of his devilishness. I have no problem with Satanic characters; I've read and enjoyed a good deal of Gothic fiction. But in this case I thought that the evil would have been much more effective if it were more grounded. Making him a Satanic character without making him actually Satan, preserving some sense of realism. The Judge was absurd.

That said, I liked his monologues. Those were some of the most entertaining and well written parts of the book. McCarthy's dialogue in general is pretty good. My problems were mostly in the details (which is, after all, where the devil is).

The tense shifts were mostly confined to the first few chapters, which probably contributed heavily to my negative first impression of the book. The first chapter, in particular, is among the most heavy handed in the book. Still, the tense shifts never quite stop, and by and large they're unnecessary: signs that McCarthy doesn't quite trust his readers. For instance, the first time that the Judge is sketching in his book, the tense shifts mid-paragraph from past into present to tell the reader that "He is a draftsman as he is other things, well sufficiant to the task. He looks up from time to time at the fire or at his companions in arms or at the night beyond." Get it? He's the devil, so he's still alive in the present, and the fire is the fire of Hell and his companions in arms are the demons of Hell, and the night beyond is outer darkness. And it pulls me right out of the moment. It would have been much stronger, in my opinion, to keep it in the past tense, subtler, let the attentive reader catch the Satanic undertones without turning the amps up to 11. Which is also my problem with the last proper chapter of the book, but I'll get to that in a moment.

As mentioned earlier, I didn't think that McCarthy's word choices were always appropriate. I don't mind an obscure word as long as it's the right obscure word. Something that might have been used in the context of the story or something that at least has some relation to the context. Words used once or twice in 16th Century England don't really fall into this category.

What I liked most about the book: the parts that had to do with the Kid (first chapter excluded). Unfortunately he drops out almost completely for about a hundred pages in the middle. This seems like a misstep, to me, since the point of his story seems to be that he was different than the other people in Glanton's band. But we don't get him being different. We get him staring at the Judge and the Judge staring at him. And once we get him pulling an arrow out of someone's leg when no one else will do it, which seems to be his first real act of compassion. So yeah, the middle of the book didn't do much for me. Lots of flat description of traveling (oh, this time they're passing a group of dwarf cedars, last time it was acacias, before that scrub oaks, how interesting), punctuated by some nicely described bits of violence, which, for all the nice description, start to get a bit redundant and boring after a while. The book picked up for me once the kid gets left behind to kill one of the injured men, which he doesn't do (his second compassionate action, or inaction, though we still haven't seen him show any scruple about what Glanton's band is doing in general). The chase with the Judge was nice. But the ending with the Judge naked in the outhouse and then dancing naked in the tavern while someone played the fiddle? We're back in Spinal Tap territory. I mean, it was good through the part where he sees the Judge and tells him that he ain't nothin. I like that. And I wouldn't mind the Judge killing him if there had been a bit of realism to it. But I almost laughed aloud at that last paragraph. I can hardly believe that something so heavy handed can be regarded so highly. There were certainly some great stretches in this book, and even some great prose, but in the end I'd say it's hopelessly uneven. I'm not sorry I read it, even though I mostly did so out of a feeling of obligation as a writer and a lit grad student. But it's not something I see myself reading again, and it's not something I'd recommend to most of my friends. If I had to rate it on some scale, I'd probably give it about a 7 out of 10.
 
 
Thorn Davis
10:26 / 15.02.08
I finished Blood Meridian on the way to work this morning, and kind of agree with a lot of what you say there Dusto, especially about the last paragraph, which seemed really overcooked. And it's one of those books where I'd love to know what the writer was thinking when he structured it. I'm sure Cormac McCarthy was diligent and focussed putting the book together so I'm sort of curious to know whether he was thinking "You know, what this book really needs is another passage of them riding through a patch of hostile country, and then butchering some people that they come across". Or when he decided to stop. What made him think "OK that's just the right amount of riding through an unforgiving landscape and butchering people they come across."

I had the same reaction to Amis's Money in which the main character's constant drunken benders had the same sense of redundancy. Was the writer there going "I really need two more benders to make two more points." Maybe it's just there to convey the sense of time and distance.

In fact I wondered whether the intent was to create a world where the violence isn't shocking, but it's actually the acts of kindness that come off as suprising and disorienting. You know, the opposite to the way a lot of other fiction works. But to me the violence never stopped being appalling; it seemed structured so that each atrocity was worse the next. I was still feeling queasy by the three-quarter mark when they found the people hanging upside down from the tree having there heads baked. So I... just don't know.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
11:56 / 15.02.08
I had the same reaction to Amis's Money in which the main character's constant drunken benders had the same sense of redundancy. Was the writer there going "I really need two more benders to make two more points."

I suppose it might be more a question of trying to get the original point across. I.e. that the behaviour in question (insane redneck violence, drunken self-laceration) isn't necessarily there for the reader's entertainment. If you can write a bit, I'm guessing the dilemna might be that you risk glamourising what you're trying to oppose.

In the same way, while on some level there are too many murders in 'American Psycho', on another, are there? Isn't the reader is supposed to feel sickened, eventually, by Bateman's antics, however complicit they might have been earlier? Brett could have written that as a Saki-esque, chamber comedy, but clearly chose not to for a particular set of reasons, not all of them to do with the meds.

Anyway, I've just finished, in quick succession, 'The Road' and 'No Country For Old Men'. They were both highly enjoyable, but, I don't know ... Isn't McCarthy perhaps a bit over-rated?

'No Country ...' could, if you were being uncharitable, be described as a Roadrunner cartoon, as narrated by some worn-down pensioner from the Book of Job - See his face, carved in rock, blasted by the desert! Drink his salty tears, and so on. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but it's hardly, you know, James Joyce.

And 'The Road', in places, particularly in the first third did seem about to head off some dark, Ballard-esque detour, at the end of which there was a row of pink tents.

In Ted (son of Joseph) Heller's 'Slab Rats', (a roman a clef, apparently, about his time working for 'Vanity Fair', or related) the narrator talks about having to go off and interview a celebrated author in the Mid-West, who insists his photos are air-brushed so as to add wrinkles, grey hairs, gravitas. Lee Child's a possible candidate, but I wonder if Cormac McCarthy mightn't be another.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
13:38 / 15.02.08
Is McCarthy engaged in a critique of old school American values (not to have a go at the US particularly, but the books couldn't be set anywhere else) or is he encouraging them, basically?

It's not hard to imagine Goerge Bush Junior, say, enjoying 'The Road', thus;

The Boy: It's hard this, isn't it Papa?

The Man: Yes son, it is.

The Boy: Papa?

The Man: Yes son?

The Boy: Weren't the loony set of values you espouse at least partly responsible for the world ending up like this in the first place?

Pause

The Man: 'Espouse' is a big word. Words are useless, now.

The Boy: But ...

The Man: Actions are what matter. We don't 'think' we don't say, we 'do

The Boy: Ok, Papa.

The Man: Ok

Pause

The Man: Up ahead of me, son, I can see some people I don't like the look of.

The Boy: Oh. Christ.
 
 
Thorn Davis
14:55 / 15.02.08
He'd probably dig Blood Meridian, too seeing as The Judge keeps wanking on about how there's no point to anything except war, and no-one ever really contradicts him (except just to say "You're insane, dude, lol") and there's never any event in the novel to suggest that this worldview is incorrect. Given that it's left up to the reader to consider the worldview presented, Dubya could come away going "Yeah man, this Judge fellow has pretty much shored up everything I already suspected. Nice one, The Judge."
 
 
Alex's Grandma
15:48 / 15.02.08
Thinking about it, isn't 'The Road' (which, again, I did enjoy) essentially a slab of thunderous Right Wing diatribe? The only characters who seem to emerge well from the situation, apart from the Man and the Boy, are the people (off-stage, as it were) who took the trouble to lay down supplies in anticipation of whatever cataclysm was in the post? The nature of which is never addressed.

There are a number of ways of describing individuals who, for whatever reason, have decided to dig a bunker in their front garden, but I'm not sure if 'good' works, in the unqualified sense the reader's expected to take it here.

The greatest living American novelist is, of course, Philip Roth. What I can't stand of his work ('Portnoy's Complaint', 'Sabbat's Theatre') is more than off-set his later material, in particular 'I Married A Communist'. But he won't be around for much longer.

The second best greatest living American author, in the sense that his books will likely be read in a hundred years, unless Cormac McCarthy's right, is Brett Easton Ellis.

And the hottest new talent to emerge recently, IMVHO, is Gary Shteyngart, who's 'Absurdistan', which somehow manages to lay into everything (his narrator's a bit like an Eastern Bloc Ignatius O'Reilly with unlimited cash and a will to travel) without ever failing to be touching, and/or funny.

So enough about Cormac McCarthy, really.

If I was a bird of death, circling the bone dry desert, looking at the sand, above the killing ground, I'd attack McCarthy like Emu, I think. And then he'd be sorry.
 
 
Stoatie's power level is >9000
19:15 / 16.02.08
there's never any event in the novel to suggest that this worldview is incorrect

Other than that it leads to a whole bunch of REALLY nasty shit happening, you mean?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
08:08 / 17.02.08
Yeah, but it's never the Man or the Boy's fault. It's the degenerates that are to blame. The degenerates being people who haven't watched enough John Wayne movies, presumably.

As I say, I thought it was terrific, but McCarthy's refusal to go into what caused the disaster in the first place (and, fair enough, it wouldn't matter) seems like a flaw in the novel, when Old West values are (very effectively) what the reader's being force-fed.
 
 
Boboss
10:42 / 18.02.08
So do you think that the mother was wrong? That he actions were selfish? Not flinty enough? Possibly morally bankrupt.

I don't.
 
 
The Idol Rich
17:56 / 18.02.08
Thinking about it, isn't 'The Road' (which, again, I did enjoy) essentially a slab of thunderous Right Wing diatribe?

I can’t see that at all. I don’t know that it really puts across too much of any viewpoint other than “please don’t completely fuck up the planet” and as the two obvious ways that we are likely to do that are by nuclear war or just by kinda carrying on as we are with fossil fuels and the like (at least if you believe all those pinkos) then I don’t see any right-wing message. If there is a right-wing message it’s obviously too subtle to me so “thunderous” seems a bit strong.

There are a number of ways of describing individuals who, for whatever reason, have decided to dig a bunker in their front garden, but I'm not sure if 'good' works, in the unqualified sense the reader's expected to take it here.

But are you expected to take them as good here? It’s fortuitous for the main characters but that doesn’t mean that the people who did it are good – or am I forgetting something relevant, it’s a while since I read it? In fact, I would go further and say that it’s not exactly clear that the main characters themselves are to be seen as unequivocally good either, isn’t that why the father constantly needs to reassure the boy that they are indeed the good guys? Surely you’re not supposed to sympathise when they catch the thief and take all his possessions and clothes condemning him to a speedy and unpleasant death?
I understood the book to be more about what people do when they are desperate, how they justify what they do and how one can possibly live when the inevitability of death is closer and more apparent than it is for most of those in the western world – and whether that last question ought to have some relevance to us anyway.
 
 
Jack Fear
18:54 / 18.02.08
I suspect that Granny may be engaging in a wee bit of provocation here, the modus operandi of which involves defending a wilfully stupid misreading—all "in character," of course. What a jolly scallywag! What a cheerful lark it all is! No wonder he is so beloved in some quarters! Fill me up with your joyous, life-affirming tomfoolery, Granny!
 
 
The Idol Rich
11:06 / 19.02.08
I did wonder but, like I said...

"it’s obviously too subtle for me"
 
 
Stoatie's power level is >9000
06:05 / 20.02.08
Yeah, but it's never the Man or the Boy's fault. It's the degenerates that are to blame. The degenerates being people who haven't watched enough John Wayne movies, presumably.

Gin-sodden Alan Bennett character studies aside, I believe we're talking about different books- I was quoting Thorn talking about BM, you appear to be talking about The Road.
 
  

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