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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

The Dark Knight - speculation and news

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23:29 / 09.11.06

So since production isn't long to kick off for sequel (script's done and getting polished, according to some reports), I figured another thread was worth making so the old thread isn't bogged down in new stuff.

02:19 / 20.05.07

Word up. There are 'Harvey Dent for DA' posters on sites created by Warner Bros., and an additional site featuring the Joker having defaced said site.

here...

And a teaser site placeholder for the film itself...

MOVIE!

I just watched Batman Begins again (for the first time in a loooong time) and was really glad that it held up as well as it did. Sharp script, they do innovative things with the character and the mythology, great actors all around and superb performances (I love Tom Wilkinson especially). Looking forward to no. 2, in 2008 or whenever it's supposed to come out...

11:49 / 20.05.07

I just watched 'Thank You For Smoking' and although it wasn't as clever as it thought it could be, I really like Arron Ekhart - he has a wonderful human-ness that will cover the Harvey side, and from Neil DuBont stuff I'm sure he is well up to playing Two-Face's darker moments.

12:27 / 20.05.07

You can see most of the Joker now on the defaced sight.

He looks pretty good!

18:20 / 20.05.07

urrgh - that's loads nastier than i imagined they'd end up going with, and that makes me rather happy.

ledger's not all that thin is he? quite a big chap? i think a slightly beefier joker could be an appropriate twist, thuggish but very smart, very mad. i'm thinking of the red dragon in tthe last scenes of manhunter - deformed, and mental as cocks on a car, but big and intimidating.

Dcdnt Dytrppr n Lv
(prev. Decadent Daytripper in Love)

18:38 / 20.05.07

I think it's less the visual for me, and what he does violently and laughs about/like that'll make the Joker. Worst bit of the Burton Batfilms was when Jack-Joker stops being violent and giggly and just turns into a harmless cartoon presence.

Dance to the Beat
(prev. Better Be Ready)

19:35 / 20.05.07

I agree with Decadent. Ledger needs only to pull the Joker laugh properly to make it work, regardless of the "look". In my opinion, it's gonna be hard to top Mark Hamil's rendition from the cartoons

ziparrow's Flex On K9 Crack

19:55 / 20.05.07

damn... I don't know what to think of that...

20:13 / 20.05.07

from that pic, i'm really not expecting to get a harmless cartoon presence. it'd take a remarkably inept actor to misinterpret his make-up job that badly i think.

20:18 / 20.05.07

Yeah, I think the tone of the character is pretty much set in stone by that make-up job.

Dcdnt Dytrppr n Lv
(prev. Decadent Daytripper in Love)

20:35 / 20.05.07

As to 'harmless cartoon presence', let's not forget where Freddie Krueger or Pinhead ended up. This'll be at least the third time the Joker's been on the silver screen, and there's certainly enough people who don't like characters who're either doing something absolutely horrible to people or making jokes about it.

I've high hopes. Push that artschool psychotic vibe, with a little thuggishness deep down, and all. And Ledger's actually a pretty decent actor at times, so he's got the ability. It's just an aesthetic, and there are other options, even just running from comics alone, that they could go with for the Joker.

Aside from that, man, Mark Hamill's Joker really was an evil unrepentant bastard, wasn't he? Great laugh to.

Back on topic, I don't think anyone announced so far is miscast in that 'totally obviously wrong' sort of way. There's potential in all of them. The potential of an actor, can be cut short by the script, though. Ledger can do all he can with the material, but there's a lot of movies, and unfortunately a lot of superhero movies that seem to think if the badguy does one or two bad things in the beginning they can stop and just be a presence, after that.

The Joker shouldn't stop until he's stopped. Even as an audience, we should be sitting in those theatre seats going 'Why can't he just stop doing that? Horrible!'

Blue Velvet Dennis Hopper, instead of Speed Dennis Hopper.

20:48 / 20.05.07

The Joker shouldn't stop until he's stopped. Even as an audience, we should be sitting in those theatre seats going 'Why can't he just stop doing that? Horrible!'

Indeed. That's exactly what I want to see, and I'm optimistic that Nolan and Co will pull it off.

It's interesting to think that the movie could well do more to bring the Joker back to A list status than a slew of DC comics over recent years. Reckon Morrison's run is gonna end on a big Joker story around the time the film is released.

03:50 / 21.05.07

04:15 / 21.05.07

when i went to the 'defaced' site the final Joker pic was pretty much there [all of the pixels had been removed - thanks fanboys] and i shat myself as I thought i would.

the scar is a bit too much for me, i have to say. it pushes for a 'video game-edgy' feel and the character never had to rely on it to be scary and unpredictable.

but i loved it anyway - i'm such a nerd. there's an overall tragic clown feel to it, an the lipstick [or whatever that is] over the scarred mouth only reinforces it.

04:26 / 21.05.07

shit, i'll be damned. should have seen it coming. it's more or less an updated version of;

04:52 / 21.05.07

the scar is a bit too much for me, i have to say. it pushes for a 'video game-edgy' feel and the character never had to rely on it to be scary and unpredictable.

Not fot me it doesn't. I believe it was a conversation held on Barbelith itself (between the all time greats of Jack Fear abd pin no less) that referred to Ichi the Killer as both a spot-on romantic comedy and a spot-on Batman/Joker story.

The shot of Ledger as the Joker reminds me of Kakihara.

ziparrow's Flex On K9 Crack

06:45 / 21.05.07

Well I still prefer Romero's than Nicholson's by a longshot (though I don't think they're particularly going anywhere near Romero's, unless it's his corpse by the look of this photo).

I liked it... not so much the picture itself, but what entails concerning the rest and the approach. I don't know, the jury's still out for me. Usually I find the twisted gruesome dark violence to be really shitty and unimaginative, but I guess if you got to go with dark in Batman's lore, you should go a longer way then (I'm more concerned about if they'd put Bale in a costume where he doesn't so obviously appear to be unconfortable in when he isn't hid by the shadows and that doesn't make his lower chin appears to be a choking frozen fat man). But I'm still waiting for a Joker facial expression from the man, since the horse-face he doesn't have (and since he has much more of a Tyler Durden expression in that particular photo -- and the fact that doesn't look like a clown at all).

Only thing is I'm amazed they would even go in that particular direction, so freaky morgue and disgustingly creepy. Not so much about "courage" in going at it, but it's something I've never even conceived when it comes in terms of the Joker and Bat-world (I mean, you wouldn't even recognize him as the Joker unless...). It comes off as a japanese horror film, as snuff aesthetics and a Slipknot or nu-metal video all at once (at first I really thought it was just Ledger with spaghetti on his face and too much sauce).

I think he's a good actor, and I sincerely doubt anything shitty would come from Nolan's kitchen when his worst is something like Insomnia.

But, if I had a kid, I wouldn't take him to "the new Batman movie". And I don't think that's particularly a good thing (not just for kids, and not just for the movie).

I mean, frea-kay!!!

11:00 / 21.05.07

Yeah, I couldn't imagine taking kids to see a film with... that thing in it. It's a serious nightmare-generator. I like the image, though. Really chilling. It's suprisingly heavy for a summer blockbuster - imagine trying to eat a Batman happy meal or something with that bastard staring back at you from the packaging.

miss wonderstarr

11:35 / 21.05.07

It's also just about the first sexy Joker I can think of, in any medium.

ziparrow's Flex On K9 Crack

12:37 / 21.05.07

If they'd make a sexy subtext (instead of the distracting insecurity from Schumacher, who had to scream at every two seconds, "this is all sooo gay and camp!"), I'd be pretty much okay since you don't have to go that far when you're dealing with a story about men obsessed with each other, hunts, mirrors, pursuits, dark alleys, S&M & the other thousand things (and since it seems to me, Morrison was the most blunt about it in Arkham, that there is a "queer factor" somehow coded in a character filled with colors, lunacy, id, laughter and gay -- in the old days sense of the word, ahem -- playfulness in a world and protagonist reigned by "no nonsense" seriousness; isn't he the character that calls Batman "Batsy", "darling" etc?).

But I can see "teh sexy" (if it's really there; 'cause all I can see is "teh gruesome" -- ok, now that you said it, a gruesome "kiss me") in that picture backfiring immensely in fandom, since I can't browse in a forum without a goddamn Brokeback "joke" or "put down".

XK

16:11 / 21.05.07

The pic is giving me the same sort of tingles I get when hearing 'gun kata'. It's some sort of over the top distilling of perfect silliness. Fromage Noir, all the way, bay-beh.

Quantum - terribly nonplussed
(prev. Quantum of Solace)

17:29 / 21.05.07

Gotta disagree with Decadent Nightfalling about this; Ledger's actually a pretty decent actor at times ... as I can't think of a single thing that he's done that impressed me. I can see him cast as Bruce/Bats and Bale as the Joker, (imagine! Joker=American Psycho in makeup!) but the other way around just seems bizarre to me. Mind you, I haven't seen Brokeback Mountain, and he plays one of seven Bob Dylans (!) in I'm Not There so I suppose my mind could be changed. Can he really act scary?

17:41 / 21.05.07

He's good in BBM.

Mind you I've never seen a film where he's actually bothered me. I quite like his screen presence.

XK

17:44 / 21.05.07

Well I've seen him act passionately fucked up and with intensity even if it was in such stellar cheese festival as The Order. He can do angst so I'm willing to give him the chance to do mental.

My fav thing about the Joker isn't that he's scary so much as he's gone beyond normal into just fucking out there, which is what makes him scary. Maybe I'm getting too Arkham here, but I'd like to see the hyper sane amoral wack job that's perfectly suited to expolit the reality he finds himself in. Okay I am getting too Arkham here now, but I do love the Joker as a looking glass foil for Bats. Bale has managed to manifest the super tight ass controlled private Bruce Wayne, the required repression which generates the terror of the channeled Bats. I'm hoping Ledger can manifest the transitional angst to absolute freedom of self the Joker enjoys.

Quantum - terribly nonplussed
(prev. Quantum of Solace)

17:45 / 21.05.07

You've seen a Knight's Tale, right, or Ned Kelly?

XK

17:49 / 21.05.07

When asked, "Why Heath Ledger as the Joker?" Christopher Nolan said, "Because he's fearless."

Quantum - terribly nonplussed
(prev. Quantum of Solace)

17:54 / 21.05.07

Well, I trust Nolan I suppose so hopefully Heath will win me over. I hated Nicholson's Joker with a passion (just Jack in lipstick FFS) so it's got to be an improvement.

17:58 / 21.05.07

I can't think of a single thing that he's done that impressed me... Mind you, I haven't seen Brokeback Mountain

He poses the problem, he finds the solution. Ledger is extraordinary in Brokeback Mountain, like he was channelling Tommy Lee Jones' performance in Lonesome Dove. He was my favourite thing about the movie (well, Ledger plus the cinematography and soundtrack).

I also trust Nolan's team with casting after having seen Batman Begins. I think Ledger will be ace.

Dcdnt Dytrppr n Lv
(prev. Decadent Daytripper in Love)

18:00 / 21.05.07

You've seen a Knight's Tale, right, or Ned Kelly?

That's just shooting low, there. Actually, it was other things that actively annoyed me in A Knight's Tale, and not Ledger.

I was thinking BBM/Bros. Grimm, really.

And I might not take kids to see this, but I know that as a kid, I'd probably have snuck in.

The question I have from that pic, is if the new DIY Joker, did, in fact, do it himself. The Kakihara vibe is nice, but it's so rough, the scarring so prominent, it almost cries attention getting. Oh, and he needs to smile or something. Seriously. Mope on yer own time, Joker, this is for the cameras and desperate fans everywhere. It's got a bit of the Cesar Romero sharp-upturn on the mouth, but if he can do a little hop thing and then eat someone's tongue, there's the merger to a unified Joker.

And really, how cool is it the promo pic looks good instead of, like the batsuit last time, or the clipless guns of the Matrix posters, the promo dispositions you to not liking something that looks fine onscreen?

18:04 / 21.05.07

I was hoping for more of a Dark Knight Returns Joker. Brooding, morose, sick, doesn't smile or laugh and just isn't funny, a vicious bastard who can't be liked in the slightest, all his jokes are vile... that's the way you get around the lingering fart smell of Nicholson stinking up the first Tim Burton movie (which stank quite a lot even without his presence).

18:09 / 21.05.07

Cold, deadly calm, and icily psychotic is how I'd describe DKR's Joker - an evil version of Bowie's Thin White Duke.

Looking at the design and knowing a bit about the Nolans' thinking I'm pretty sure that's what we're going to get.

20:01 / 21.05.07

Got into a discussion with a friend of mine about the Joker's look... and while he's not a fan of it ("Too Hannibal characteresque") I have to say he has a minor point I agree with. Namely the smile. I love the old Gwynplaine look, all gummy toothsome and disturbing.

But this... this I love just the same.

Everytime I look at that picture, I wet my pants in The Fear. I honestly doubt Nolan and Ledger will disappoint.

20:18 / 21.05.07

Oh, and not funny. The DKR Joker is never ever, ever funny. Not even remotely.

Dcdnt Dytrppr n Lv
(prev. Decadent Daytripper in Love)

20:23 / 21.05.07

I always read the DKR Joker as wanting to get the funny back. That's the death/artificial-laughter at the end of him, he lost the humor, which was, for him, the mass antagonizing of old Batsy. Everything he does in that book is to try and get the humor back, including the big latenight talkshow appearance. It's just that none of it's working for him, it's just not like the old days.

I don't think the Joker should be funny to us, but he should be funny to himself. Dead children in springloaded coffins and all.

The icy cool is the truth under it all, the humor itself very affected and desperate in some way.

20:31 / 21.05.07

Oh, I'm not necessarily talking about Ultimate Joker, I'm talking about the Joker that I'd like to see in this context.

Interesting reading of DKR Joker, DN. I don't entirely agree, partially because of the Bowie angle, and, well, for me the character felt complete the second he uttered the line "Darling!". Sure, it's clear that the Joker is comatose before Bats shows up and that he does have to find himself again, I just think you're running too far with the ball.

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