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20:19 / 22.03.02
So when I got my first new-agey book back when I was 12 or so, this was the only ritual I practiced because the other ones in the book seemed...well fluffy.

Anyway, the book said that when you're drawing the pentagrams, after the pentagram is fully formed, you poke your fingers,wand, dagger, or whatever into the middle and SAY IHVH, ADNI, and the like.

Well earlier this week, I was poking around the alt.magick group and there was this long discourse on the LBRP and the ritual they put forth involved vibrating the words while you drews the pentagrams.

Vibrating? This is the first I've ever heard of this. Have I been going about the LBRP all wrong all these years?
20:39 / 22.03.02
Vibrating? This is the first I've ever heard of this. – Trijhaos

Vibrating is saying a word or name in such a way that every syllable is drawn out and intoned (Think of "Om"). I'm not so convinced that there's a "correct" form – especially with name pronunciation – but there are various approaches. Try a few and see how they feel to you.
22:00 / 22.03.02
LBRP is golden dawn, it shows up alot in various versions, but the core of it remains pretty much the same. Its good stuff. Though I prefer modern forms that don't rely on Hebrew.

The idea of "vibrating" words is to find that special way of saying it that the sound resonates to you in a magickal way. Its just like moving letters and scribbling about until a sigel looks magick to you, only you're doing it with sound.
01:00 / 23.03.02
To my knowledge there are many variations to the L.B.R.P (lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram) Its not that you were neccessarily doing it wrong if it felt right. Many books will have you skip important steps or even list things backwards, confuse T's with I's and such. I recomend reading Donald Kraigs 11 lessons. He provides one of the basic forms established in the goldendawn.The most important thing with this is to resonate. Your toungue should tickle the roof of your mouth vibrating your core with the growing progression of words. Hebrew is tricky,but chanting will help your breathing and resonating. Try vibrating simple things next time you meditate.
16:24 / 23.03.02
Can someone give a link to the LBRP that's good for beginners? I'm new to this one. (Yep, I'm a newbie to magick)
16:46 / 23.03.02
Try this one...

[ 23-03-2002: Message edited by: Ierne ]
21:25 / 19.06.06
In the Liber Resh thread I noted that the LBRP's Kabalistic Cross essentially restates the end of the Lord's Prayer/Matthew 6:12 in half-assed Hebrew.

After a bit of digging it looks like the evocation of archangels has a much older pedigree, from a Jewish protection ritual often added to the evening prayer (Kriyat Shema).

As noted in another forum, this prayer ends with: "at my right Michael, at my left Gabriel, before me Uriel, behind me Raphael."

What's more, according to Jewish Magic and Superstition (parts of which are available through Google Print), this "is nothing more than a Jewish version of the ancient Babylonian incantation, 'Shamash before me, behind me Sin, Nergal at my right, Ninib at my left,' or 'May the good Shedu go at my right, the good Lamassu at my left,' etc.

In other words, this part of the LBRP may be a damned old bit of magic. Interesting.
Doc Checkmate
21:54 / 19.06.06
Benjamin Rowe, an iconoclastic solitary Enochian practioner who passed away a few years ago, provides the God-King of LBRP Tutorials in his Essential Skills of Magick, as well as a very solid overview of (his take on) the underpinnings of western ceremonial magic.

I may actually start a thread on Ben Rowe in a bit. The guy's just fascinating, and Iīm curious as to what others think of his work. Will thread if I have time.
21:56 / 19.06.06
For those unfamiliar with the ritual here's a full description (adapted from 'Modern Magick' by Donald Michael Kraig) as the link in the old post above is borked.
rising and revolving
22:20 / 19.06.06
Doc, please do start the Ben Rowe post. I know a little, and I'd be interested in hearing your POV. A serious research driven magician, and definately a vibrant reinterpretation of Enochian.
22:46 / 19.06.06
possibly one for the 'stupid magick and religion questions thread' but there ya go!

Being rather new to this whole malarky, I find that the LBRP certainly resonates with me in some way, and I certainly intend to start practising it. However, I am most definately NOT a monothesist, and have rather attempted to eliminate any christian influence from my life (I realise that denies me rather a lot of the western trad. magics, however). I guess my question would be, is it possible (or indeed wise) to map other, more compatible with my nature as a person and an aspiring magician, religions/belief systems onto the LBRP? Any experience or advice that other users have to offer is sincerely solictited.
22:53 / 19.06.06
or have I, in fact, basically misunderstood and misrepresented the LBRP entirely?
23:06 / 19.06.06
I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

I've seen a few adaptations of the LBRP that don't use god-names, angels, or Hebrew -- the first that comes to mind was in Jason Newcomb's The New Hermetics. (Rodney Orpheus's version in Abrahadabra does the same, but he then adds a bunch of Thelemic dogma that you might find objectionable.)

Lots of other people have adapted the LBRP to use Greek Gods, Norse Gods, Warner Bros. cartoon characters, and almost any other entities you can imagine. (In fact, it seems to be one of the most widely adapted rituals around.) Why not try it a few different ways and see what seems to work for you?
Unconditional Love
00:01 / 20.06.06
Can also be done with chinese elemental animals pheonix before, tortoise behind, dragon at the left, white tiger at the right, and man at the centre.
Start facing south.

Pheonix red fire
tortoise black water
dragon green wood
tiger white metal
man golden earth

Its based on the celestial correspondence to the divisions of the sky. ken wilber gives a chi kung exercise on one of his tapes.
Unconditional Love
00:06 / 20.06.06
If you know the corresponding chi kung exercises these can be done for each animal in each direction while meditating and visualising, worth learning 8 animals chi kung.

For the man position you could assume standing like a tree zhan zhuang, a tree rooted to the earth.
01:04 / 20.06.06
Crowley himself created a variant called the Star Ruby that essentially remixes the LRP using egyptian godforms instead of angelic constructs.

While the western canon of esoterica certainly leverages the vast mythologies of traditional Christian and Hebrew monotheism, I think it would be inaccurate to say that the canon is monotheistic. Even polytheistic traditions generally posit a hierarchy of deities culminating in one or two top-level sources.

Many people who are turned off by references to angels and names of G_d typically have their own cumbersome associations gained from a childhood of religious parents or peers. Consider also the notion of appropriating and re-branding these mythic forms. Surely our invoking of archangels would annoy most Xtians to no end.
Gypsy Lantern
12:41 / 21.06.06
However, I am most definately NOT a monothesist, and have rather attempted to eliminate any christian influence from my life

I find that a bit of a problematic stance for a magician myself, and not for the reasons you might think. A lot of people come to magic with a big chip on their shoulder about Christianity, it is viewed as a pejorative in the mainstream of the occult community, and a certain dualism is brought into play between shiny pagan heroes and evil Christian villains. I find it more useful to situate the perspective of my magic beyond this little zero sum game wherever possible. Attempting to "eliminate any Christian influence" from your life, is in a sense a denial of the reality of 2000 years of world history and the undeniably important role that Christianity has played in shaping the consciousness of the western culture that we have inherited, for better or worse.

So rather than pretending that Christianity didn't happen, and trying to ignore its massive influence on the culture I am embedded within, I try to be inclusive of any aspects of it that I don't have any real problem with. There is a lot in Christianity that I think is really valuable, so to actually take that on and make it work for me in the context of my belief system, is more of a triumph over bigoted religious fundamentalism than if I went around literally or metaphorically spitting on a large swathe of the populace for their beliefs. As seems to be the case with an awful lot of magicians you encounter.

I like syncretism, and there is something very appealing to me about being able to take on board the religion of countless generations of my ancestors and interact with these things magically. There is something very empowering about being able to throw off the burden of other people's problematic interpretation of the Christian mysteries, and engage with the gnostic heart of it directly. I think you really need to be able to do this in order to work western magic, as otherwise there is no heart or emotion behind it and it's all empty gestures and noises. I think you have to come to an understanding of "God" in your own terms, and this needn't be a monotheism and it needn't mean taking on any values that you are uncomfortable with.

My own personal understanding of "God", when it comes up in western magic, is very much influenced by the African Diaspora magico-religious traditions and how they interact with Catholicism. The Christian God is considered synonymous with the African Creator Deity, who is a kind of distant over-arching Divinity who emanates the various principles of reality, known as Orisha or Lwa depending on tradition. You deal with the Lwa on a day-to-day basis, but acknowledge that they are emanations of a creator God. The Lwa and Orisha are very similar in nature to the pagan Gods of pre-Christian cultures, such as the Greek or Norse deities, yet direct parallels are drawn - and in many cases direct syncretisms are made - with the Christian Saints and Angels who could also be considered emanations of God dealing with certain specific areas of reality.

If you actually look at the Qabalistic Tree of Life, that is the process that it is describing. The Light of Kether emanates the various individual Sephiroth, or principles of reality, in increasing density culminating in Malkuth, or the physical world. All of creation/reality/the Universe is therefore "God" and it is this that we are engaging with in rituals such as the LBRP. I see the notions of monotheism and polytheism as unhelpful limitations on understanding this process. A monotheistic God is simply the Tree of Life considered in the singular, without attention to detail. Polytheism is looking at the details without allowing for a bigger picture. I see no real reason to identify strongly with either of these positions, and I can see the value in both of them. It need not be reduced to an either/or equation.

Untangling some of that mess, and understanding that "God" need only mean the Universe taken as a whole; and "Gods" (or Saints, or Lwa, or Archangels, or Orisha, or Aesir, or whatever) need only mean the principles that are the component parts of that whole – allows me to strip away any moral or ethical objections I might have to certain aspects of the Christian worldview in which western magic is totally embedded, and deal with the essence of the magic itself. I can happily call on Godnames or call to Archangels and not be squeamish about it, but genuinely do so with as much love and passion and emotion for the Divine as any rapturous Pentecostal Christian. Which I think you really have to do if you want to get the magic working at anything more than a superficial level. You have to fully engage with something to that emotional extent or else... Well... You won't be fully engaging with it!

There is a lot of talk about about paradigm shifting and flexibility of belief in chaos magic, but an awful lot of chaos magicians actually seem fairly terrified by the prospect of interacting with something like Christianity in any meaningful sense, and will go to bizarre lengths to excise any trace of it. Seems a bit contradictory to me.

I guess my question would be, is it possible (or indeed wise) to map other, more compatible with my nature as a person and an aspiring magician, religions/belief systems onto the LBRP? Any experience or advice that other users have to offer is sincerely solictited.

Yeah, you can do that. As noted above, it's probably the most "versioned" ritual there is. I've lost count of all the different variations on the format of the LBRP I've attempted over the years. It's good to experiment with it as it gives you a feel for what the ritual does, kind of like reverse engineering.

However, I personally got bored of all that because the trad LBRP seems to work immeasurably better for me. I think this is because there is an awful lot to the LBRP that you wouldn't automatically see on the surface. I've been practicing it, on and off, for over 10 years and I'm still getting new things from it. I still feel as if I'm only just starting to scratch the surface of it. It may not be a particularly ancient ritual, and some of the Hebrew might be a bit problematic, but there is so much depth there. You will generally end up with a much shallower form if you strip away the Godnames and Archangels, because you are taking the ritual out of its context.

Without turning barbelith into "chaos magic evisceration corner" again, it's another big problem I have with that approach. The belief that all of the symbol systems of magic are just window dressing around "technique" and are largely interchangeable is just plain wrong, in my opinion. If you strip out all of the western mystery school symbolism of the LBRP, you lose the bigger picture that it draws from, and that's what makes it interesting in the first place. The LBRP is effective for me, because through its symbolism it has the entire western tradition of magic informing it. A good part of the poetry of the ritual comes from its place within this context.

The LBRP, in its trad form, is not just a space clearing operation, but acts as a kind of gateway drug to western magic. Aleister Crowley calls it "the medicine of metals and the stone of the wise" and if you play around with it for awhile in the context of western magic, you really get a sense of that depth. Whereas, if you swap pentagrams for WWE logos and Archangels for wrestlers, you aren't connecting up to these wider mysteries anymore, it becomes a totally different thing.

Also worth considering is that the LBRP is step one on a larger learning curve. Once you get the LBRP down, you have the Greater Pentagram, the Hexagrams, the Rose Cross and so on to explore. It's not really a finite limited operation that can be taken from its context without losing a great deal of its purpose. It will still work as a "banishing" if you come up with your own version, but in its original form, it is intended to be so much more than that.

I'd suggest that, if you don't intend on practicing western magic and finding some common ground with notions like "God" or "Archangels", then I don't really see much point in bothering with the format of the LBRP at all. Why not just develop your own space clearing operation without reference to the framework of the LBRP? There's this weird assumption in the popular understanding of magic that somehow the technique of the LBRP is totally essential to being a magician, when it just isn't. You actually don't have to learn the LBRP at all. You don't have to call the quarters, or draw a circle around yourself, or learn how to visualise geometric shapes in the air or any of that stuff. Unless you aim to practice western magic.
electric monk
14:17 / 21.06.06
Well said, Gypsy.
Kiltartan Cross
15:20 / 21.06.06
Quite. I'd go so far as to say that considering any of the common Aspects of the universe should be enough to induce awe and reverence on the most determined atheist.

Consider love. By referring to Love, the principle, the aspect, we can refer to every love that has ever been, every love that is, every love that will be; everything that has ever been, that is, or that will be thought and written, said and sung about love; and maybe there are other people out there in the universe who love; maybe there are an untold number of untold numbers of lovers and loves; that is the sum of Love, and if we refer to it we bloody well should be impressed. To call upon it, to visualise it as a personification, deification, aspect of the whole, whatever should fill us with the most profound respect because as a totality it is completely beyond our individual comprehensions.

And the universe itself - whether you believe it to be God, or God's handiwork, or both, or neither - is as far beyond that one aspect of itself called Love as Love is beyond our imagination.

We play with words when we use them. We say that love is such-and-such a thing; we simplify, we abstract, we can see these realities as simplified concepts only. A magician, a priest, a scientist, anyone who, for just a short time, attempts to address the aspect of Love as a totality will fail - but in the moment of the attempt, as they try to name and comprehend better the thing as a whole, they are truly in contact with something beyond themself.
17:15 / 21.06.06
I have a huge problem with Christianity, and I'm not embarrassed to admit it.

My grandfather fled from a Russian pogrom that burned his family's farm to the ground, along with much of his family. Most of my grandmother's family died in Auschwitz. As Elaine Pagels and plenty of others have pointed out, that's in no small part thanks to Christianity -- from the express text of the Gospels forward -- and its purported followers. What's more, I personally believe that Christianity -- both as a belief system and an ideology -- has been the single most regressive force in the entire history of humanity.

That makes much of the Christian content of modern Western ceremonial magic, including the LBRP (with its crosses and Lord's Prayer), problematic to me. What's more, the more I look, the more the Jewish elements of Western ceremonial magic look to me like magpie-ish, cargo-cultish efforts (by non-Jews from Mirandola to Constant to Mathers) to patch together a system by mistranslating a few Christian prayers into Hebrew, adding a few God and angelic names from random parts of random prayers or the Torah, and tweaking the Tree of Life to put Jesus right smack in the center.

Is it a workable syncretic system? Sure -- in fact, in some places it's quite elegant. But something about it irks me.

With that said, since I've restarted my practice I've been doing the LBRP -- in its standard form, Cabalistic Cross, God names and all -- twice a day, every day.

Why? For three reasons.

First, as GL noted, it seems to be effective in its present form. Those god names, pentacles, and archangels do serve a purpose. It may be contacting and working with the entities in question. It may be tapping into well-established archetypes that have resonance to people raised in a Western, Judeo-Christian culture. Or it may be simply visualizing and invoking something that's considered to be outside the self and "higher" or more powerful than the self, whether it's understood as an archangel or god, or simply an unused or unconscious portion of your mind.

Second, it's the best western magical exercise I've encountered. It serves as a banishing ritual, provides excellent practice of all of the basic techniques of western magic (visualization, vibration, movement, evocation, enflaming the self with prayer, etc. etc.) It's the equivalent of a daily workout, or running an antivirus program. As GL said, it's one step on a learning curve.

Finally, I want to get a better understanding of the ritual, and a baseline reading of its effect (if any) before I start tweaking it. Is it doing anything for me in its existing form? What parts of it (if any) seem to have an effect, and which don't? Which parts (if any) do I particularly like, and which don't I like?

I've already come to some preliminary conclusions, and even written some possible changes to the ritual, but I'm not yet ready to put them into practice.

Learn anatomy before becoming an expressionist. Learn the chords before you fuck your guitar. Learn to walk before you run.
17:35 / 21.06.06
By the way, as I was writing the above I received the copy of the Ha-Siddur Ha-Shalem (a classic Hebrew prayer book) I ordered a few weeks ago.

Here's the portion of the night prayer (said before bed) that appears to have been adopted into the LBRP. I've added a bit more of the prayer, since it's damned cool:

* * * *

Solomon's bed -- sixty heroes are around it, heroes of Israel. All of them are armed with swords, and are trained in war; each has his sword on his hip, because of danger at night.

May the Lord bless you and protect you; may the Lord countenance you and be gracious to you; may the Lord favor you and give you peace.

Behold, the Guardian of Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps.

For thy salvation I hope, O Lord. I hope, O Lord, for thy salvation. O Lord, for thy salvation I hope.

In the name of the Lord God of Israel, may Michael be at my right hand, and Gabriel at my left; before me Uriel; behind me Raphael; and above my head the divine presence.
Gypsy Lantern
17:44 / 21.06.06
Interesting how the LBRP gets the attribution of Archangels to quarters completely wrong. I wonder what the story is behind that. Bad scholarship? Typo?

I'd be interested to hear how you get on with your re-write of it, taking in these factors.
18:01 / 21.06.06
I'd like to thank everyone who's posted on this thread so far, it's been, the most useful, insightful and worthwhile read I've had on 'lith, on the topic of magic(k), since I joined. And I joined partly to to find out about magic(k).
19:05 / 21.06.06

Interesting how the LBRP gets the attribution of Archangels to quarters completely wrong. I wonder what the story is behind that. Bad scholarship? Typo?

I'm guessing the Golden Dawn folks wanted to add a bit of elemental symbolism and put the archangels attributed to each element in the compass direction attributed to that element. (E.g., East = Air = Raphael.) Not sure yet whether those elemental, directional, or angelic attributions predated the Golden Dawn.

It's interesting to compare Eliphas Levi's Pentagram ritual, which I'd guess was another source of the LBRP.

From A.E. Waite's translation:

The Pentagram is consecrated with the four elements; the magical figure is breathed on five times; it is sprinkled with holy water; it is dried by the smoke of five perfumes, namely, incense, myrrh, aloes, sulphur and camphor, to which a little white resin and ambergris may be added. The five breathings are accompanied by the utterance of names attributed to the five genii, who are Gabriel, Raphael, Anael, Samael, and Oriphiel. Afterwards the Pentacle is placed successively at the north, south, east, west, and centre of the astronomical cross, pronouncing at the same time, one after another, the consonants of the Sacred Tetragram [YHVH], and then, in an undertone, the blessed letters ALEPH and the mysterious TAU [first and last Hebrew letters], united in the kabalistic name of AZOTH.
Doc Checkmate
20:07 / 21.06.06
Not sure yet whether those elemental, directional, or angelic attributions predated the Golden Dawn.

I don't know about the directional assignment of the archangels, but the attribution of the elements to the points of the pentagram does have at least one precedent in antiquity. It mirrors the arrangement of the Enochian elemental tablets given to Dee and Kelley by the angel Raphael in 1587--Earth in the bottom left, Air in the top left, Water in the top right, and Fire in the bottom right.

I have no idea why the archangels governing the elements are arranged differently. I'm not even sure why they're given their particular elemental assignments--why is Gabriel the water guy with the cup, for example? Who decided Auriel gets Earth? It doesn't line up with their Sephirotic attributions--anyone know what the deal is?
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
20:09 / 21.06.06
"Before me Raphael, Behind me Gabriel, On my right hand Michael, On my left hand Auriel, for about me flames the Pentagram, and in the Column stands the six-rayed Star."

Definitely a bit strange, especially if you've read Aleister Crowley's Notes on the Ritual of the Pentagram where he states that "You are suppose to be standing at the intersection of the paths of Samech and Pe. You are facing Tiphereth (the sun), thus on your right hand is Netzach (Venus), on your left hand Hod (Mercury), and behind you Yesod (the Moon)."

Why is this strange? Well, there are no problems with the direction of Tiphereth and Yesod. Tiphereth is East = Air, hence Raphael...(Elementally, dear Watson)...However, when Crowley states that on your "right hand is Netzach, on your left hand Hod" there is a major discrepancy, surely? The archangel whom you've previously acknowledged on your right hand is Michael but he is not the archangel of Netzach, he rules Hod. It is Auriel who rules Netzach (according to Crowley) So, why do you invoke Michael and Auriel standing on your right and left in the ritual when, according to Crowley, the spheres they rule are on the opposite sides of where he claims the magician is standing?

The ritual has to be examined very carefully. We began with the Qabalistic Cross to strengthen ourselves internally by acknowledging ourselves as the center of our / the Universe. We then drew pentagrams and a circle which cleansed our immediate area and defined our space on this plane. We can see that if Tiphereth is before us in the East and represents Air then Yesod is behind us, as the Watery aspect of the West.

Our right-hand side is then, by default, pointing toward the South and our left is pointing North. It's all very starightforward so far (HAH!), even when you say, "On my right hand Michael, On my left hand Auriel." Yes, Michael is an archangel of Fire and at this point he should be on your right, or South. This means that Auriel, the archangel of Earth, must be on your left side, North, which, whaddayaknow, you're acknowledging that he is.

The confusion creeps in when you consider that Crowley claims an individual is standing at the intersection of Phe and Samech, facing Tiphereth with Hod to one's left and Netzach off on the right. We've established that all the elemental and archangel attributes to the four quarters are correct and have no apparent problem in relationship to this plane. It's only when the ritual is related to the spheres on the Tree of Life that it all gets in the Dogs Dinner Way. But does it, though? (You decide!)

The big question, then, is whether Crowley is referring to an internal or external Tree of Life where one is standing. To understand this, you have to consider that some of the attributes on the macrocosmic Tree of Life are reversed when compared to the microcosmic Tree of Life (inside yourself).

Mirrors, eh, smoke and mirrors, oldest magic in the game...?? er, sorry.

The 'Above' attributes are always depicted on the backside of an image of a huge man Qabalistically equated with Adam Kadmon, or the universal Adam. In fact, most Qabalistic books draw their charts using this particular image of the Tree. After all, you can not look at the face of God. It makes Hir Cross.

It is only natural that if you were looking at the backside of Adam Kadmon his left arm would be where the Left-Hand Pillar of the Tree is depicted and his right arm the Right-Hand Pillar.

The microcosmic Tree of Life depicted within yourself is slightly different. This Tree is always drawn on the frontal image of a man, referring to yourself, and because of this it is obvious that some attributes become reversed. For instance the Middle Pillar remains the same but the left and right pillars reverse sides. You acknowledge this microcosmic structure during The Qabalistic Cross by touching your right shoulder to vibrate ve-Geburah and touching your left to vibrate ve-Gedulah. This states that Geburah-5 and Hod-8 are on your right, while Chesed-4 and Netzach-7 are on your left.

It's not widely written that when forming the Qabalistic Cross, you are supposed to use the opposite hand to touch the shoulders of ve-Geburah and ve-Gedulah. Dunno why. This forms your arms in a Cross over the chest and has your left arm affirming God's right and your right arm affirming His left. By utilizing these four spheres, an individual forms their astral body into a huge Cross. S'secret, innit?

A deeper understanding of how the ritual works comes into play knowing all of this...While the internal affirmations of the Qabalistic Cross are being acknowledged, the magician is symbolically standing at the intersection of Phe and Samech on the macrocosmic Tree of Life. In other words, the magician is mentally working above Malkuth, between Tiphereth-6, Yesod-9, Hod-8 and Netzach-7, to summon the forces of the archangels ruling these spheres down to the plane of Earth where he or she stands. Once they have been drawn down to Malkuth the archangels assume the correct elemental directions of this plane.

It is not as complicated as it may seem, but is steeped in the sort of detail those old codgers seemed to revel in.
Doc Checkmate
20:26 / 21.06.06

Still not sure I follow a couple of the points. Warning: amateurish qabalistic yammering ahead.

Why does Tiphareth represent Air? Because of its "son" position in mapping IHVH on the Tree? If so, that's a bit of a digression from the normal way of pinning the elements to the Tree. Seems like Tiphareth (and, accordingly, Raphael) would be a better candidate for Spirit in an elemental working than for Air.

And I thought Yesod was attributed not to Water, but to Air... doesn't Hod represent Water? (Although I did always think that Yesod's lunar attributes, the astral, etc, pointed more strongly to water, while Hod's governance of Mercury seemed more airy) This all goes along with the grades of A.'.A.'. or, if you want to kick it old skool, the Golden Dawn... I think.

And if we're going to use Briatic attributions, then isn't Sandalphon the archangel of Earth, not Auriel? Maybe that's where the "according to Crowley" bit comes in...
20:56 / 21.06.06
Looks like a hefty chunk of YH$WH's post came word-for-word from this article, which is quite good.

That article also points out that the LBRP's Kabalistic Cross comes from Eliphas Levi.

I'll have to take a little time to puzzle out the elemental attributions . . .
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
21:08 / 21.06.06

Though I don't (didn't) have the whole thing, just that middle chunk 'splaining the micro/macro confusion.
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
21:09 / 21.06.06
And, uh, sorry 'bout the ficsuit :-)
trouser the trouserian
07:36 / 22.06.06
Here's a question related to the LBRP I hope someone can help me with. Reading the Red Flame article above I noticed references to chakras. Does anyone know who started this trend to overlay chakras onto western magical forms?
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
10:19 / 22.06.06
The O.T.O, maybe?
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
10:54 / 22.06.06
It would appear, relating back to the Ha-Siddur Ha-Shalem , that medieval kabbalists had differing attributions for the archangels to the sephiroth (and perhaps prior to them yet more difference).

Michael = Chesed (now Hod or Tipheret)

Uriel = Truth / Middle Pillar / Tiphereth (now Netzach, and later 12th-15th Century texts will post Haniel here instead, just to really add to the clarity)

Raphael = Hod (now Tipheret)

Gabriel = Gevurah : I believe the words share a common root. (now attributed to Yesod)

Anyway, these positions relate somewhat more neatly to the attributions given in the daily prayer book. Though not that well.

The so-called 'qabalistic cross' attributes come from, I believe, psalm 99, and are part of the morning Torah service. None of the LBRP movements are traditional, though, and the whole order is different, as are the directions and elemental attributions, and, indeed, the whole 'cross' itself.
Unconditional Love
11:50 / 22.06.06
The first person i read that made bodily associations in qabalah was israel regardie, but it appears that tradition is far older, as for mapping the chakras onto the body i have no idea, that the two systems should be mapped onto each other is no surprize as they share similar values according to some.

Hebrew Qabalah and the North Indian Tantra
12:30 / 22.06.06
I suspect that last link is just a rehash of Gersholem Scholem's cultural chauvinism - "the Jewish invented everything, including yoga".

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