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No More Mutants?!

 
 
Seeker
14:36 / 17.10.05
Personally, my response to this is NO MORE MARVEL. The reversion to the tired lameness of the last century is complete at last. Undoing EVERYTHING that Grant Morrisson et al have done in the last 4 years to make the franchise exciting and relevant again, is absolutely the last straw. I now fully empathize with that curmudgeon John Bryne when he exclaimed in 2001 (paraphrasing) "Cancelling successful books in a failing market?! Any company with that business sense is not a company that I want to work for". As of now, I have as much respect for Quesada as an editor as I have for Liefeld as an artist: that is to say, none at all. It is indeed a pity that when Jemas was sacked, he didn't take Quesada with him. Alan Moore was prescient when he designated the main Marvel continuity with the Mark of the Beast : 616!
 
 
Ganesh
15:10 / 17.10.05
Erm. To a casual occasional-reader, what is "the coming Decimation"?
 
 
Aertho
15:29 / 17.10.05
Because everybody and their brother is a mutant in MU, and because Marvel editorial lacks the creativity to maintain the subcultured population that Morrison solidified, they've decided to use Scarlet Wanda to rewrite 616 so that there's very very very few mutants.

Supposedly because it's more like what the sixties intended.

And there's the controversy. What was the intention of the X-Men frachise? It seems that everybody, up until now, has acknowledged that mutants have stood in for any voiceless minority, blacks, women, gays, Mormons, pirates, et cetera. And over the course of 40 = 10 years, they should STAY a voiceless faceless minority - because that's what the sixities intended.

?
 
 
Sniv
16:18 / 17.10.05
Bit pointless, but I see Marvel's point. How is a mutant 'special' when 3 out of ten people (or whatever the damn number is, I usually stay away from X-books, too confusing) have powers? Although, I liked the way the francise seemed to be heading, with mutants becoming 'normal', just like blacks, gays etc are starting to become now. This does seem to be undoing the work of the 616 mutant community.

Saying this though, it's obvious Marvel wouldn't wipe out half the X-men (what about the toys), so all you'll be doing is losing a lot of baggage (much like DC's original Crisis).
 
 
Sax
16:21 / 17.10.05
'normal', just like blacks, gays etc are starting to become now

W, and indeed, T, F?
 
 
Quimper
16:31 / 17.10.05
I can't wait for those blacks and gays to finally become normal!

This is ridiculous. What about taking the franchise to its logical next evolutionary step and use the next 25 years to tell the story of the mutant-human war. And let *that* be the defining trait of the MU.

Although I must say that I do love the Xorn retcon. At least Bendis said Xorn was indeed Magneto...and then Scarlet Witch brought him back to life.
 
 
gridley
16:32 / 17.10.05
So what will happen to all the mutant characters? Will many of them just cease to exist or will there be new explanation of their powers?

Right now, it sounds to me like a gimmicky thing that will be reversed within a year.
 
 
Aertho
16:42 / 17.10.05
Xorn retcon

What what what?

F the House of M and all that, but I Byrne-stole the latest issue and missed any reference to Xorn. Fill us in, Q. And how do they resolve the Kuan-Yin/Shen Xorn bullshit?
 
 
doyoufeelloved
16:58 / 17.10.05
F the House of M and all that, but I Byrne-stole the latest issue and missed any reference to Xorn.

They don't specifically reference him, but Dr. Strange figures out that Wanda simply resurrected Magneto after Wolverine cut his head off. The EXCALIBUR Magneto is officially a creation of Wanda. As for the twin Chuck Austen Xorns, God only knows.
 
 
Aertho
17:01 / 17.10.05
Although, I liked the way the francise seemed to be heading, with mutants becoming 'normal', just like blacks, gays etc are starting to become now. This does seem to be undoing the work of the 616 mutant community.

I would assume that he means more visible, more integrated, and more economically viable. Yes, "Decimation" will undo Mutant Town, fashions by Jumbo Carnation Ltd., and halt ticket sales to Sentinel Bait and Cerebrastorm shows. It was only a matter of time before Rogue came out with her own clothing line, MTV optioned a spinoff channel for empowered youth, and Morlocks started taking "American" jobs.
 
 
Tim Tempest
17:32 / 17.10.05
I really don't see a point in cutting back on the mutant population with magic. It seems lazy and unoriginal. Plus, G.M. already did this with Genosha (withOUT magic) at the start of his run...And he did it with flare. The hybrid-sentinels were sweet.

And this is making Marvel look stupid. I was psyched for HoM at the beginnning, and I really think that the whole thing peaked at #3...and died. Marvel is totally riding the HoM like it's gonna' be some huge change...But it's not. It's just another 'altered-reality' tale fighting Magneto. It's all been done before.

And it's also being somewhat hypocritical to kill off evolving mutants...Look at the huge Spider-Man thing coming up..."The Other". The whole point of that is evolution. The ads even say: "EVOLVE OR DIE" in them.

Bottom line, Marvel needs some new editorial staff, Not have Bendis writing every book ever, and someone...anyone...just has to give Chris Claremont a good kick in the head.

Rant Concluded.
 
 
Mario
00:22 / 18.10.05
I heard the number "198 mutants". With a moratorium on creating new ones. That's not a minority...that's a peer group. My high-school graduating class was bigger than that.

I expect a couple of years of "I need my powers, boo-hoo". Basically, the post-Neutralizer Storm, writ large.
 
 
Sniv
15:11 / 18.10.05
/threadrot

Quimper: I can't wait for those blacks and gays to finally become normal!

Depends on where you live dude, in my town, the last gay-pub was fire-bombed last year, and it's a very white place. Anyway, you're being facetious, you know what I meant!
 
 
Our Lady Drinks Your Milkshake
15:23 / 18.10.05
You'll have to clarify it for me because I can assure you that I have no clue what you're going on about.
 
 
West Baltimore Hausing Project
15:32 / 18.10.05
OK, I think we've got the bit between teeth on that one.

Kaiser John: It's dangerous to assume that people know what you mean - it's clear to _you_, but the suggestion that if somebody questions that then they are being perverse is a rather large statement to make. In this case, I think that what you meant was:

Mutants were becoming within the Marvel universe a recognised minority population entitled to equal legal rights and with whom people are accustomed to dealing as equals on a daily basis, although still subject to discrimination and acts of violence, just as we have seen in the experience of black and gay people in the US.

Unfortunately, putting a pair of quote marks around "normal" does not necessarily communicate that, even if I have guessed right. Especially when you used the forms "blacks" and "gays" - this is, I have no doubt, inexperience rather than malice, but iit's generally considered a bit off to use these as defining nouns rather than describing adjectives (compare balck people and gay men and lesbians, for example). Taken together, I can see somebody coming to a conclusion that you meant something quite different from the meaning I took away. Particularly in areas where historically words have often been used with highly prejudicial meanings, it's best to try to minimise misunderstandings at the point of speech.
 
 
Quimper
22:52 / 18.10.05
So, in Exiles...Beak and Angel are left behind on 616 Earth to deal with Wanda's No More Mutants Chaos Labia...(no, i don't read exiles...i read a summary online)

I will cut off a finger if we get to see the scene where Beak looks in a mirror and finds that he is a normal non-chicken human. And I will chop off another finger if we find out that he is gorgeous.

Those "Aftermath" covers that have been solicited are really depressing and somewhat visceral. Look how sad they are...






But I am so happy for Beak!!!
 
 
PatrickMM
01:54 / 19.10.05
This is what I said over in the House of M thread, it's probably more applicable here:

I haven't actually read House of M, but reading about the Decimation stuff, it sounds like awful storytelling, and the idea that Quesada always wanted to reduce the number of mutants is odd considering the fact that Morrison's run was all about the fact that mutation was inevitable and it's humanity who's on the way out.

But more importantly, if you want to clear out a bunch of mutants, is the best way to do it really this alternate world business. This would seem like the perfect excuse to finally do the Days of Future Past stuff for real, and really play out the mutant/human tension, and you end up with the same new status quo. Using alternate worlds as a way to change your characters seems like very poor storytelling. But maybe it plays out better in the story itself.


This seems to be corporate comics at its worst, trying to please the audience rather than trying to tell a good story.
 
 
Our Lady Drinks Your Milkshake
11:18 / 19.10.05
But do those covers mean that a load of mutants don't disappear as if they never were, merely become depowered? Well that'll just take five seconds of thought for the next writer to undo then.
 
 
Decadent Daytripper in Love
01:12 / 20.10.05
Actually even NOT EXISTING ANYMORE would take about five minutes or less for a writer to reverse. Without strain or shock. Because these are superhero comics. And. Nobody. Stays. Dead. Ever.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
01:33 / 20.10.05
On the other hand though, aren't 198 mutants basically too many?

Including Spider-Man, wouldn't seven be enough?
 
 
Aertho
01:36 / 20.10.05
Well okay.

Spider-Man, Wolverine, Kitty Pryde, Magneto, Wolverine, Iron Man, and Nick Fury.

Wait. What happpens when Jean Grey comes back?
 
 
Triplets
(prev. I AM THE DARK! I AM THE NIGHT!)
01:56 / 20.10.05
Magneto turns out to have been Jean all along.
 
 
Triplets
(prev. I AM THE DARK! I AM THE NIGHT!)
02:25 / 20.10.05
Image hosted by Photobucket.com
 
 
Krug
12:01 / 20.10.05
Ah nostalgia.

I liked it better when we were all discussing Xorn and waiting for the next NXM issue. Marvel's output is turning into one massive easily avoidable turd. Read Punisher instead.
 
 
Evil Scientist
12:30 / 20.10.05
Turning the implacable rise of mutant-kind into a damp squib seems like a terrible idea. Any more information on the government tasking Sentinels to protect the remaining ones? Is this going to be like a conservation thing to protect an endangered species?

(Using genocidal, notoriously-unpredictable, killer robots to guard the things they're designed to kill isn't a great plan. Pretty insensitive into the bargain)

That cover looks like they've cut Gambit's powers. Might make him a more interesting character (but probably not).

I take it this House of M continuity wave's sorted out the "Mankind will die out in two or three generations." thing. Pity, I would have liked to see the Marvel-verse eggheads desperately trying to find a way to save Humanity.

So was it Xavier all along then. PM me if ya don't want to spoil it.
 
 
The Stolen Llama
14:00 / 20.10.05
That cover looks like they've cut Gambit's powers.

I think that's the Gen-Xer Chamber on the cover, as opposed to Gambit.
 
 
Evil Scientist
14:34 / 20.10.05
I think that's the Gen-Xer Chamber on the cover, as opposed to Gambit

Damn it!

So all the main X-types get to keep their powers then? What's the reason behind that?
 
 
E. Randy Dupre
14:37 / 20.10.05
Sales.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
20:07 / 20.10.05
This will all be ignored/retconned within a year or two, no worries.
 
 
doyoufeelloved
20:42 / 20.10.05
This will all be ignored/retconned within a year or two, no worries.

Worse than that -- they'll stick rigorously to it for a year, then they won't be able to help themselves and they'll start creating mutant characters again, and then out of nowhere some writer somewhere is going to use a character who lost their powers as if they were back to normal, and nothing will be said about this fact, and pretty soon it'll all start seeping in around the edges again and when anybody asks "Hey, didn't ______ get fucked up by a cosmic vagina a few years ago?", you'll just have to say "Forget it, it was stupid." W00t.
 
 
The Stolen Llama
20:58 / 20.10.05
From http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/7670.html

Quesada also rejected the idea that mutants who bit the dust during the House of M and Decimation would be returning, stating unequivocally: "As long as I am EIC (editor in chief) I am not bringing any of these (characters) back."

Hm. How long does Quesada have left? As soon as he's out, we'll have the next EIC bringing back the powerless mutants. And probably Phoenix too.

Actually, Phoenix will probably rectify the powerless mutants situation.
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
20:59 / 22.10.05
Phoenix isn't TECHNICALLY a mutant, is she? I mean, she's powered by a hyper-powerful pan-dimensional cosmic guardian. Sort of like the dragon guarding the treasure, only on super-steroids.

See, I LIKED the threat that mutant kind was going to subsume humanity. It was just amusing. Plus they got some good runs out of the extended X-books.

...and now it shall be crap again. I wonder if, 50 years from now, we'll be comparing this to the way we compare...I dunno. The X-Stinction Agenda? The Asguard Wars? The Phalanx Covenant? The Dark Phoenix Saga?

(gotta love the Phalanx, most ineffective invading alien race of all time...in Marvel, at least)
 
 
Warewullf
21:41 / 22.10.05
Worse than that -- they'll stick rigorously to it for a year, then they won't be able to help themselves and they'll start creating mutant characters again, and then out of nowhere some writer somewhere is going to use a character who lost their powers as if they were back to normal, and nothing will be said about this fact, and pretty soon it'll all start seeping in around the edges again and when anybody asks "Hey, didn't ______ get fucked up by a cosmic vagina a few years ago?", you'll just have to say "Forget it, it was stupid." W00t.

Nailed it.
 
 
TroyJ15
02:50 / 23.10.05
Am I the only one who doesn't feel that it's that bad? I'm happy with House of M so far. They explained the Magneto resurrection business, used a dangling subplot from Avengers as story arc, and on top of that the whole things going to actually have ramifications for the forseeable future. Everybody keeps referring to it as an alternate reality but it doesn't sound that way to me at all! It sounds like this going to stick (as long Joe Q's around)1 I lovede the NXM stuff but it's obvious Marvel had other things in mind as soon as Astonishing X-Men #1 hit! I'm not going to read the whole Decimation thing but the bits that interest me, I will pick up!
 
  
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