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All-Star Superman

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07:22 / 13.04.07

The burning of materials seems like part of Zibarro's war effort, but I could be wrong.

I think the Sun Eater will most likely show up again if/when Morrison gets around to the long-promised Solaris appearance.

ziparrow's prismoon champaign

07:23 / 13.04.07

I don't think Zibarro is the technician. Seemed more likely the... whateverthefuckthatwas in the first page was the clone from #4.

But this issue might be the one we will least be able to talk about, it seems to me. Too much "to be continued and explained yet" (not that something like that ever stopped us).

ALL KINDS OF DEAD TREES
(prev. Papers regarding Tlön & Uqbar)

07:42 / 13.04.07

Bite your tongue! We'll always have things to talk about and argue around. I was concerned that we might not have much to say because this is very much a *plot* issue rather a *character* one, but all the same, there's a panel with Bizarro Santa chasing kids through the streets of Metropolis with a knife while some other Bizarros try to reverse a McDonalds sign in the background--- I don't think we'll run out. I still want to tackle the Steve Lombard question.

BrianFitzgerald

07:42 / 13.04.07

I'm still waiting (probably in vain) for more similarities between the underverse and the "paperverse meta-technology" from The Filth

...and the Outer Church from the Invisibles, and that place Midas wound up at the end of Marvel Boy, and "where you get your ideas" from Flex Mentallo, and Slaughter Swamp from 7 Soldiers, etc.

ALL KINDS OF DEAD TREES
(prev. Papers regarding Tlön & Uqbar)

07:44 / 13.04.07

I was more catching on it being like Earth-2's antimatter universe, what with the Quitely & evil Superman duplicates...

ziparrow's prismoon champaign

08:45 / 13.04.07

Well, the Paperverse wasn't exactly a shadowy hostile "Not Self" aspect, group, organism or place; it wasn't centered on margins of things like hell, abyss, qlipoth etc (I'll try to find the definition tomorrow; I remember seeing it in that Crack comics site from GM, but that was long ago). Although that last page did looked as if it was taken straight out of Flex #4.

Since we can relish in details, you have to point it out as well to what Bizarro Liberty holds in her hands (although I can't quite see what she's got in her left hand). On another one, I loved how Supes' failure in flying was in a descending stairs, if not only for a visual symbolism, but there's something visually odd in the panel of him taking off I can't quite target it right.

ALL KINDS OF DEAD TREES
(prev. Papers regarding Tlön & Uqbar)

08:53 / 13.04.07

Since we can relish in details, you have to point it out as well to what Bizarro Liberty holds in her hands (although I can't quite see what she's got in her left hand).

I almost wish she was holding onto a rolling pin, if only for the symmetry with Wonder Woman's portrayal in the Emperor Joker universe. But Torch of Liberty = Morning Star of Unliberty = Bringing Light = Lucifer. Bit of a bad pun, actually.

10:03 / 13.04.07

On another one, I loved how Supes' failure in flying was in a descending stairs, if not only for a visual symbolism, but there's something visually odd in the panel of him taking off I can't quite target it right.

It was visually odd because it's prolly one of the most traditional and accepted depictions of Superman in his standard "Up Up and Away" poses by Quitely which, when surrounded by Htrae, is seen as the opposite--strange, weird, unacceptable, not-not-self. So it works to underscore him losing his powers, basically casting the perfect man as an invalid in the underworld of 'valid' malformations.

ALL KINDS OF DEAD TREES
(prev. Papers regarding Tlön & Uqbar)

16:34 / 13.04.07

basically casting the perfect man as an invalid in the underworld of 'valid' malformations.

Next issue, instead of the Bizarro Justice League, I now really want Supes to join the Bizarro Doom Patrol. GO!

16:50 / 13.04.07

The Zibarro bit also reminded me of the 'Earth 2' device, where on that alternate Earth, Luthor is the only good guy among a world of villains. (of course, I know Morrison didn't come up with that concept himself, as it was in place long before with Crime Syndicate of America stories dating back to the 70s).

Extremely cool to see Morrison ADDING something new to the Supes mythos (namely, our new friend Zibarro; no relation to the USA food chain Sbarros)

17:05 / 13.04.07

>> Zibarro is Superman with Hamlet's depression

Brilliant.

Also, Zibarro's costume colors are for the most part color-opposites (in terms of the famous 'color wheel,' right? I think?). Or maybe just reversal of Supes' red-blue-and-yellow.

And I know Morrison has introduced 'new' aspects before to the Supes mythos (Quintnum, the Sun-Eater, etc.), but Zibarro really feels like the Biggest New Official Superman Concept we've seen thus far in the series.

Nuke Kids on the Bloc
(prev. The Freewheeling Penis)

20:13 / 13.04.07

Did anyone think, when we saw the back of Z's head (along with the pretty sad dialogue), that he was going to be Bizarro Jor-El?

That very first panel of this comic still shits me up.

Interesting motif that Superman keeps visiting the afterlife/Death and surviving. The lava kingdom, Luthor's bonsai prison and Shawshank escape river, and now the Underverse. The entire series in hologram.

Also, something that occured to me on the way home, the Bizarros we see this issue are, presumably, Bizarro Bizarro Technicians sprung forth from the Original Bizarro Technician. The technicians, normally, are designed to fulfill one role, one function (pilot, haiku, etc). The Bizarro Bizarros, apparently, can be anyone, as long as they touch 'em.

20:26 / 13.04.07

I initally thought Zibarro would be Xel Rohtul in a parallel riff on Earth 2.

While I haven't reread it yet I'm more & More of the opinion that the planet eater disguised itself as Htrae upon contact with the Bizaro Tech from issue 4. The whole planet being based on that one person's memories/ideas/perceptions of life on earth. The fact that this tech was a Bizarro tech could be a significant factor in the distorted reflection Htrae provides. Particularly in relation to the dark reflection of EARTH 1.

Love the Lex ->Bizzaro #1 ->Bizaro Tech ->Htrae -> Zibarro genealogy.

Visual side note; I loved how Superman's impact upon Htrae created a circular impact ripples upon the square sky. This whole storyline in one panel, circular peg in square hole.

ALL KINDS OF DEAD TREES
(prev. Papers regarding Tlön & Uqbar)

22:45 / 13.04.07

I also thought (hoped?) it was going to be Bizarro Jor-El as well, on the strength of #8's cover alone. But then I turned the page, and he whispered those fatal words -- "Call me...Zibarro." ("Call me...often." Jimmy Olsen's fantasy of what's happening to Superman).

The technicians, normally, are designed to fulfill one role, one function (pilot, haiku, etc). The Bizarro Bizarros, apparently, can be anyone, as long as they touch 'em.

That was said in relation to the "G-Types" rather than the Bizarro Technicians, Agatha and her related ilk; green-skinned pseudo-Coluans and probably built as a different breed to the Bizarro drones, who I imagine start out with that kind of flexible, mutable functionality that Technician Bizarro Jesus brought with him into the Underverse.

I very much like the idea that the planet eater Quintum talks about has disguised itself as a Bizarro Cube-World based on the technician -- Quintum does say its emulating Earth to appear less threatening, no?

I love the little smile on Jimmy's face as Superman tells him the plan is, indeed, gold. Such a perfect moment.

Bots'wana Beast

23:32 / 13.04.07

You know what I'm having trouble parsing? Bizarro Dylan Thomas: "No down sinkhole go to underplace. No into cold us go no freezing good dark go."

Because normally each statement or sentence can be resensified with with negative removal, but the second can't there. I mean, do they want to be there, down the plughole of existence?

ALL KINDS OF DEAD TREES
(prev. Papers regarding Tlön & Uqbar)

00:51 / 14.04.07

Ah, Bizarro Dylan Thomas. He drank himself sober in only eighteen shots.

I think it's meant to be more of a statement of fact rather than a statement of desire - "No go" = We're going down into the dark, rather than "We want to go down into the dark!" I'm curious about the use of freezing, cold, and dark - it's hard to parse out if those are suppose to really mean burning, hot, and bright -- while that doesn't make sense from what we've seen in the underverse, where it's all red light & burning couches for warmth, it does make sense if everything's under tremendous pressure from the Underverse's super-gravity.

ALL KINDS OF DEAD TREES
(prev. Papers regarding Tlön & Uqbar)

00:53 / 14.04.07

(cont)...and they were actually cold in the aboverse, consequently burning couches if not in effigy than for warmth while invading, and they're not yet down far enough into the underverse for things to truly warm up from the super-pressure.

ziparrow's prismoon champaign

01:15 / 14.04.07

Is the reason this storyline goes through two issues on the contrary to the rest of the series due to it's own Bizarro factor?

ziparrow's prismoon champaign

01:17 / 14.04.07

(not my idea, just read it on that jog blog and found the idea super-duper)

Nuke Kids on the Bloc
(prev. The Freewheeling Penis)

01:50 / 14.04.07

I really like that, Sparrow. Also, Papers, you should start teaching comic theory - or at least Grant Morrison theory - in schools.

Nuke Kids on the Bloc
(prev. The Freewheeling Penis)

01:55 / 14.04.07

Oh, and the Statue of Bizarre Liberty is holding a mace.

ziparrow's prismoon champaign

02:19 / 14.04.07

but on the left hand...?

Nuke Kids on the Bloc
(prev. The Freewheeling Penis)

03:12 / 14.04.07

Shit. I mean, uh, a mirror?

The Paschal Lamb

16:46 / 14.04.07

I <3 Zibarro

ALL KINDS OF DEAD TREES
(prev. Papers regarding Tlön & Uqbar)

18:45 / 14.04.07

Trips - I thought that maces had the ball connected directly to the handle, and that morning stars had the chain in between? A morning star seems more thematically/symbolically interesting in the context, though.

I would very much love to one day teach comic theory. And it would be *comic* theory, not graphic novels (except as a specific term for a specific thing, as in the Eisner).

I'm wondering if the Planet Eater has f*cked itself over, actually - in generating the Zibarro (crossref with "Captain Universe" as experienced by the Captain in Forbush-Vision over in Nextwave - one lone man understanding joy) & furthermore generating a Superman-emulating Bizarro, its given Superman some superfriends to help him defeat it.

The Earth-borne parasite Bizarros might not be all dead - the solicits for #8 mention the Planet staff holing up to fight off the invasion, don't they? I'm curious to see Jimmy Olsen fighting off the destructive advances of Bizarro Jimmy.

Lois didn't do much this issue, although there was a lot going on. Perry White was certainly a Big, Hard Man, beating a Bizarro to death with a fire extinguisher.

ziparrow's prismoon champaign

19:24 / 14.04.07

I'm not so sure Zibarro'll be of much help. He seemed like the Bizarro's lonely freak, he might be just the village's tormented outcast idiot for all we know (in the bizarro's own manner -- something inverted in the soup). I think there will be an inversion somewhere in the opposites myriad we're not anticipating, maybe along the lines of "is a bizarro bizarro a human's Superman, a normal human, a powerless giant, or will he have some of the status but lacking what makes Superman special etc?" I'm betting he'll have some superiority complex, it'll play around the unique-special X outcast-alien in contrast to what makes Superman super in Grant's eyes. He seemed whiny about his uniqueness as he regards himself above and outside the (what appear to be his view, inferior) bizarros -- maybe to contrast to Superman, that has a more self-inclusive nature despite of (or specially due to) his uniqueness (no matter what Bill said to Uma Thurman!). Something to play around the "of the people/ my people" (as he says in the end of the issue to Bizarro) versus the special alien messiah outsider.

And since we haven't seen the green suit guy from #8's cover yet (is he really bizarro Jor-El or we assumed because of his rocket blueprints?), much is bound to happen in-between yet.

ALL KINDS OF DEAD TREES
(prev. Papers regarding Tlön & Uqbar)

20:37 / 14.04.07

And since we haven't seen the green suit guy from #8's cover yet (is he really bizarro Jor-El or we assumed because of his rocket blueprints?), much is bound to happen in-between yet.

It's possibly a more metaphorical cover than a real one, or one of the Bizarros assumes some Jor-El like aspects (or plays dress-up) while they're actually trying to fire him off into space. We'll see.

00:31 / 15.04.07

this comic crystal clear in Rotceh' mind. don't need to read again. Am Rotceh?

FQ's linework not sketchier this issue, yes? not rushed!

Rotceh not used to character-driven plot in this ussue, so it went down beter than others. not so sure so few happened this ussue.

still a lot of bad ideas and one-liners Rotceh found!

rich rich Bizarros!

me don't want #8 never!

00:33 / 15.04.07

Here's a thought...

What if the cover to #8 doesn't show the the Bizarros trying to kill Superman (by accident or otherwise) but how they are trying to _save_ him, by launching him by rocket back to the Oververse?

ALL KINDS OF DEAD TREES
(prev. Papers regarding Tlön & Uqbar)

01:06 / 15.04.07

Er, Mario, I thought we'd already covered that, what with the little diagram showing his proposed pathway from Htrae to Earth, no?

Phex: Dorset Doom

01:23 / 15.04.07

I'm wondering if the Planet Eater has f*cked itself over, actually - in generating the Zibarro & furthermore generating a Superman-emulating Bizarro, its given Superman some superfriends to help him defeat it.

Wouldn't that be the Bizarro thing to do though, to f oneself in the a, metaphorically speaking?

The Paschal Lamb

09:26 / 15.04.07

Just out of interest has it already been established that Htrae has a sun orbiting it?

I don't think that's a moon.

and it would make Bizarro sense.

Cowboy Scientist

10:49 / 15.04.07

Also, check Zibarro's costume, it seems made of regular clothes; shorts, regular belt, socks, and what looks like the cape is realy some kind of jacket, with the arms ripped off.

15:17 / 15.04.07

Papers: Good eye. I hadn't looked that closely.

Nuke Kids on the Bloc
(prev. The Freewheeling Penis)

16:13 / 15.04.07

Heat Vision, that would make sense, though: Zibarro's made a Superman costume out of Clark's clothes.

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