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Alexander: Wily fellow or ignorant cheat?

 
 
Tezcatlipoca
11:57 / 06.10.05
Ok, first off this thread is going here in conversation because the subject is utterly trivial, with absolutely no merit - intellectual or other wise - to it...

...however, it has regardless formed the basis of a long running divergence of opinion between a friend and myself.

The crux of the problem lies around Alexander's famed cutting of the Gordian Knot, and, more importantly, whether or not he cheated, or whether the act solved the problem of the Knot.

For the doubtless very few of you who might not be aware of what the hell Tez is babbling about, more on the history of the Gordian Knot can be found here.

Now, I personally hold that Alexander - himself a student of Aristotle and so no stranger to logic problems - did solve the problem. True, he did not untie the knot, as was perhaps expected of him, but he did loose it. Not only that but, as the legend states, Zeus was so impressed at old Alex being the only man to have shown anything even approaching original thought, that he made the prophecy of the Knot come true.

Said friend however, holds the opposite view. He believes that the only way to solve the Gordian Knot would have been to untie it (which, incidentally, was considered to be impossible due to the nature of the Knot's construction).

So, where do you stand? Was the cutting of the Knot a true 'solution' to the problem, or did old Alex basically cheat?
 
 
All Acting Regiment
12:10 / 06.10.05
I think it was a true solution. Matter of choice, really. If you had a crappy old car that wouldn't start, and you wired a horse up to it, I think that would be a true solution. Or if you put an engine and wheels on a stuffed horse.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
12:11 / 06.10.05
I'm siding with Zeus on this one.

To take time and effort to untie the knot would have condoned and validated an orthodoxy that was demonstrably unsuitable to it's position. By cutting the knot Alexander removed it from an equation that should never have contained it.

On a less interpretive front, upon cutting the knot it was no longer a knot and thus was not tied. The required ends was acheived. Cheating would imply that there was some kind of rule system applied to the untying of the knot. No record of this exists so cheating simply cannot apply.
 
 
Supaglue
12:41 / 06.10.05
In some accounts though, didn't he just pull out the wooden pin in the middle of it all and it came undone?
 
 
A Haus of Minions
12:50 / 06.10.05
I'd go for precedent on this one, and specifically that of Daedalus, who found himself coonfronted with a very siimilar problem - that of threading a needle through an intricate shell. He achieved this not through any feat of dexterity, but by putting an ant with a thread tied to it at one end of the conch and a dab of honey at the other. This is a bit more cunning than simply whacking something with a sword, but the lesson is much the same - that there are some things that simpply cannot be done in the way they are expected to be done. As you say, the Gordian knot was designed to be intractable - ingenuity in knot-untying would be ultimately as useless in resolving the problem as skill in needle-threading would be to the conch.

Of course, the message given is also that no problem is so great that whacking it with a sword does not resolve it, but it might be best not to major on that.
 
 
Nick's Experimental Wrongness
14:07 / 06.10.05
You could also read this as a parable of action vs. endless theorising; perhaps Alexander's solution is a warning to the intellectual not to get so wrapped up in cogitation that you produce no measurable improvement in life. But whatever it is, I'm not sure it's as deep as the surrounding literature makes out.
 
 
Quantum
15:22 / 06.10.05
The wise men who looked after the knot thought Lo! Here is one who has solved the problem by thinking outside the box! It's technically cheating, but hey he's holding a drawn sword and has a vast army outside and a look in his steely eye... Hail Alexander, you're Great!
 
 
Stoat-ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH
15:39 / 06.10.05
I guess it's the difference between "solution" and "right answer", isn't it?
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
16:12 / 06.10.05
TRUTH!
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
16:17 / 06.10.05
The story of the Gordian Knot is political propoganda, like George Washington's cherry tree or that Scottish guy with the spider. Drawing moral lessons from political propoganda is starkly insane.
 
 
Cat Chant
17:46 / 06.10.05
Where's the moral lesson?
 
 
Jub
18:13 / 06.10.05
Clever people think too much. Or as Mr Denfoldy told the world - there's no problem that can't be solved with his fists. [fist/sword].

That's morality!
 
 
E. Randy Dupre
21:44 / 06.10.05
Back up a second. Daedalus tied a piece of thread around an ant? And that made the task easier?
 
 
Mourne Kransky
21:53 / 06.10.05
What we Trek aficionados would know as a Kobayashi Maru manoeuvre.
 
 
grant
22:51 / 06.10.05
STRONG TRUTH!
 
 
Keggers From The Crypt
23:04 / 06.10.05
Ah the good ol' Kobayashi Maru... I didnt't realize it was so old. Good times, good times...
 
 
Mistletoffelees
(prev. Mist van der Rohe)
23:08 / 06.10.05
Wasn´t that with Kirstey Alley, who looks ...different these days?
 
 
Keggers From The Crypt
23:17 / 06.10.05
Hush! We care not how far the hangers on have fallen! We geeks care not for the actors/actresses but merely for the roles they held.

Han Solo is not Harrison Ford.

Please excuse the geekdom threadrot
 
 
Mourne Kransky
00:03 / 07.10.05
We're in The Conversation. It's all about the threadrot here.
 
 
grant
00:05 / 07.10.05
Daedalus tied a piece of thread around an ant? And that made the task easier?

The man made functional wings out of wax, wood and feathers. Lassoing ants was not a problem.
 
 
Purple Aki's Facebook entry
00:07 / 07.10.05
"What we Trek aficionados would know as a Kobayashi Maru manoeuvre"

also where keyser soze got his idea for mr "kobyashi" from...(well he got his idea from the crockery, but the writer got it from star trek - FACT)
 
 
Keggers From The Crypt
00:08 / 07.10.05
Its multy-layered geekdom!
 
 
astrojax69
00:19 / 07.10.05
did you know ants are functionally autistic?

that's why they can function in such a large community so close without angst with so much precision. anyway, i thought daedalus sat around dublin pubs defending shakespeare...
 
 
Keggers From The Crypt
00:20 / 07.10.05
buwhahaha!
 
 
sine
22:46 / 09.10.05
Filthy cheat. Brass kahunas.
 
  
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