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Rove Exposed - Bush Impeachment

 
  

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diz
23:34 / 28.10.05
I would be surprised if Libby turned on the Bush administration. These guys get to where they are because of their propensity for loyalty.

Yeah. Scooter's a bullet-taker.
 
 
sleazenation
23:43 / 28.10.05
Ah, ask the question and Newsnight answers (thank you Stephanie Flanders, daughter of Michael Flanders of Flanders and Swann fame) - Libby hurt himself in a skining accident.

As for Bullet-taking - i don't think so. Libby is no mere minnow. As chief aide to Vice-President Dick Cheney, Libby had been involved in almost every major decision made by the Bush administration. With trial in the works, a lot of questions can be asked in a court of law, possibly with Dick Cheney in the witness box on oath...
 
 
Hieronymus
23:45 / 28.10.05
feh. I'd wager that loyalty tack doesn't stand up very long when you're looking at a possible 30 year prison sentence. And after reading the indictment, they've sure as hell got a strong case.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
02:14 / 29.10.05
Bush would no doubt have preferred resolution today, whether it was a call from the hangman or a fresh pack of Get Out Of Jail Free cards. This one will run and run, with the i8nvestigation of Rove rumbling on. Getting his scalp is less important than befouling the Republican nest, in a sense. This way Bush has a much harder time drawing a line in the quicksand.
 
 
Cherielabombe
02:14 / 29.10.05
YAY!!! And Rove still under investigation! YAAAAY!

>>More coherent post later..<<
 
 
Aertho
03:14 / 29.10.05
Alright, I really would like to understand what is going on, but I'm confused. Could someone please summarize what has happened? Yes, I suppose I've been under a rock, but I don't know how the events are related, or how they've unfolded. This dude's wife is a spy? For the Bush Administration? And Libby, Novak, and Turd Blossom are in trouble for telling a reporter? Help me.
 
 
diz
05:46 / 29.10.05
As for Bullet-taking - i don't think so. Libby is no mere minnow. As chief aide to Vice-President Dick Cheney, Libby had been involved in almost every major decision made by the Bush administration. With trial in the works, a lot of questions can be asked in a court of law, possibly with Dick Cheney in the witness box on oath...

Yeah, and you would think that Watergate and Iran-Contra would have netted bigger fish than it did, too, but they didn't, because people like Cheney have no shortage of people willing to fall on their swords for them.

Perjury's not a problem if you can get everyone to stick to the same story. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think it's going to be a hard uphill climb.

feh. I'd wager that loyalty tack doesn't stand up very long when you're looking at a possible 30 year prison sentence. And after reading the indictment, they've sure as hell got a strong case.

I don't know about that. First of all, Bush can and probably will issue an 11th hour pardon at the end of his term for anyone involved in this, so we're talking about, at most, 2-3 years in a minimum security facility for Libby or anyone else who takes the fall for the big guys.

Second, not to be too conspiratorial, anyone in Libby's position who rolled over on the Bush family and its allies would have a lifespan measurable in months. They don't fuck around.

Alright, I really would like to understand what is going on, but I'm confused. Could someone please summarize what has happened? Yes, I suppose I've been under a rock, but I don't know how the events are related, or how they've unfolded. This dude's wife is a spy? For the Bush Administration? And Libby, Novak, and Turd Blossom are in trouble for telling a reporter? Help me.

Valerie Plame is a CIA operative. Her husband Joseph Wilson is a retired diplomat, and he helped blow the lid on the Niger yellowcake memo, basically revealing that the evidence that Bush presented in his State of the Union that Iraq was developing a nuke was forged.

Then, someone, somewhere blew Plame's cover. This unidentified leaker talked to Robert Novak, who in turn mentioned in her column that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, was a CIA operative.

Now, obviously, the identity of an undercover CIA operative is classified information, and blowing someone's cover while they're in the field could endanger the agent's life and jeopardize US intelligence-gathering operations. Plus, it's a violation of security clearances.

The leaker is speculated to have done this in retaliation for Wilson criticizing the administration. Of course, whoever leaked the info could be in serious trouble. The speculation of those "in the know" inside the Beltway fell immediately on Karl Rove and Dick Cheney. Now Dick Cheney's top aide, Scooter Libby, has been indicted by a grand jury in connection with the independent counsel's investigation.
 
 
Aertho
05:52 / 29.10.05
Now, obviously, the identity of an undercover CIA operative is classified information, and blowing someone's cover while they're in the field could endanger the agent's life and jeopardize US intelligence-gathering operations.

She was "in the field" then? Her marriage was a sham? She was undercover as a wife?
 
 
diz
09:57 / 29.10.05
She was "in the field" then? Her marriage was a sham? She was undercover as a wife?

No, no. I think she was using the sort of access diplomat's wives get as a cover for intelligence work. Her marriage was on the level, AFAIK.
 
 
A Haus of Minions
16:41 / 29.10.05
Chad - this primer may help.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
22:36 / 29.10.05
I don't mean to disrespect Chad but he is an American, iirc. And not any average Joe but a Barbeloid-American. Yet all of this is, apparently, news to him. That speaks volumes for news management in ths US.
 
 
Slim
00:33 / 30.10.05
It's been in the news non-stop. If you pay attention to the news, hearing about it is unavoidable.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
01:07 / 30.10.05
I had a quick check back there and conclude that not only doesn't Chad watch tv but he doesn't bother to read threads before posting on them. ibis explained the whole thing very elegantly just one page back at the theadhead.

Good to hear that the tv news coverage is all over this. Hope they keep up the pressure, now they've reattached their cojones.
 
 
Aertho
01:31 / 30.10.05
Yes, you're right Xoc, I didn't read this thread that thoroughly. I skimmed and missed the section that would've helped me the greatest. To be clear: I do watch television, but the coverage I've seen has not been forthcoming with the information I needed. Mostly in reference to the outing, not timelines or diagrams. The whole "undercover wife" thing threw me and seemed overly action-thriller.

Much thanks to Diz and Haus for the clarification.
 
 
quixote
06:38 / 30.10.05
One point I don't see discussed here (I may have missed it), is who forged the famous documents to begin with.

To recap: --Cheney Admin makes case for war, nuclear weapons a major component because that resonates, scare-talk about Saddam buying yellowcake from Niger. --Jpe Wilson publishes piece saying the yellowcake story was nonsense and based on forged documents. --Wilson's wife outed in revenge, which ends her career (she was officially an energy consultant for Brewster Something-or-other, as well as a "diplomat's wife"), leads to unknown jeopardy, possibly fatal, for any of her contacts overseas (who instantly come under suspicion), and is expected to cause seriously bad morale among US spies (which may not be a bad thing?). --Question of WHY the documents were forged and by whom is quietly never answered.

Information coming out now leads back, via Italian spies, to the same group of neocons at the White House. For those of us who want to jump to conclusions, it looks suspiciously like the Cheney Administration forged documents to back up lies in order to lead the country into an illegal war.

That also explains why they were so livid that Wilson would dare mention the problem to begin with. If they couldn't shut him up, then the whole thing might unravel, right back to them.

The two best sites I've found for (mounds of) details on all this are Josh Marshall's Talking Points Memo and Laura Rozen's War and Piece.
 
 
Cherielabombe
14:07 / 30.10.05
There's a very interesting interview on Thursday's Democracy Now that talks a lot about the original forged documents and the role the Italian government and media played.

What I found especially interesting about this interview is that it revealed that there might be/have been sealed indictments. Sealed indictments would not be revealed to the public, and those indicted would not be notified about it. The reason for this is so that others close to those receiving sealed indictments would not be aware that they are being investigated. This means that there may in fact have been more people indicted on Friday than just Libby.

Chad, essentially this whole Valerie Plame thing goes back to the false case the Bush Administration made in order to sell the American public on the Iraq war. So, in a sense the Iraq war, and the case for it, is also on trial.

I do think there is a bit of poetic justice in the fact that the "Cheney cabal" attempted to smear Joe Wilson in part due to their arrogant attitude of 'because we can.' Joe Wilson was, to them, likely just an irritating little gnat to them. But ithis little brush off just may bring the Bush administration down.
 
 
quixote
20:12 / 30.10.05
Some mozzies carry malaria.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:52 / 12.12.05
I just watched "All the President's Men" on DVD, and it got me SO stoked for Rove and Libby to go down, hard.
 
 
FinderWolf
21:50 / 16.12.05
Novak has now said in public that he feels certain that Bush knows the ID of the leaker and called Bush out, suggesting that Bush is obligated to disclose everything he knows on the subject.
 
 
quixote
05:35 / 18.12.05
The scuttlebutt is that Fitzgerald (well, the grand jury, to be precise) will be indicting Rove before the end of the year. Obstruction of justice, and the like. I can't see El Arbusto surviving without the voice in his transmitter, so what's he going to do? Pardon immediately? Or wait a bit? Or figure that with God on his side, he don't need no stinkin babyface pullin his strings? I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the latter, in which case I can watch his future progress with considerable interest. (cackles evilly)
 
 
ibis the being
02:36 / 07.04.06
Update on the Fitzgerald investigation -

Libby is Implicating Bush and Cheney in the leaks.

I'm cautiously optimistic.
 
 
Woodsurfer
03:01 / 07.04.06
This revelation was a ray of sunshine in my day. Is that thud I hear the sound of the mighty falling?
 
 
Baz Auckland
06:13 / 07.04.06
I love the defence though. It doesn't quite have the ring of "If the president does it, it isn't illegal", but still...

From Yahoo News: Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said the president has the "inherent authority to decide who should have classified information."
 
 
FINKLESTEIN!
14:26 / 07.04.06
This article has the quote that I was hoping to see resurface.

Bush has repeatedly denounced the leaks that are a trademark of inside-the-Beltway politics. In September 2003, for example, he said: "There are too many leaks of classified information in Washington. There's leaks at the executive branch, there's leaks in the legislative branch, there's just too many leaks. I want -- and if there's a leak out of the administration, I want to know who it is. And if a person has violated law, the person will be taken care of."
 
 
Slim
14:27 / 13.06.06
News reports are claiming that Rove won't be charged in the Plame case...
 
 
SteppersFan
21:39 / 13.06.06
Quelle surprise.

I'd like to meet the man who's prepared to take out Rove. Doesn't matter if Bush is on his arse, or even out of office - Rove is just untouchable. Just think of who he'd take with him; the pressure on any prosecutor would be unbelievable. But at least the threat of impeachment cramped his style a bit; if he's now back in the saddle you can just see the religious right who've been so vocally anti-Bush since Rove has been out of the picture (for "going soft" on them) being corralled back into supporting the Republicans.

Bad news for Hilary, that's for sure.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
22:36 / 13.06.06
GAH! FUCK! AAARRGGHH!

The Republicans aren't tough on crime after all, it seems.

I really shouldn't have expected anything else, I guess, but there goes the only hope of nailing these fucks. Gah. Need wine. Now.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
18:58 / 17.06.06
I wish I could say that the reason they aren't going after Rove is because they are looking to get Cheney, but everything I've read is that there just isn't a lot of evidence the prosecutor is able to get his hands on. The Bush people are famously protective of secrets, and have courts who will back them that since We Are At War (tm), the President and his peopleare able to classify anything they feel like classifying.

The reason Clinton was so easy to nail was because his people would give out information to just about anyone, while the Bush people routinely destroy their notes, classify things, and go out of their way to do things face-to-face so that they all have deniability. This was made pretty clear when Bush said he doesn't send e-mail because he doesn't want anything getting out. Libby's lawyet is fighting to get Libby's e-mails to defend him, and the White House is claiming tht they don't have any of them...and I believe them, as I woudl venture to guess that they destroy as many records as they can on a daily basis.

Still, the Libby trial will be interesting to see what they were able to get out of the White House.
 
 
grant
22:10 / 13.07.06
Valerie Plame is filing suit against Rove, Cheney, Libby, 10 others:

The lawsuit accuses Cheney, Libby, Rove and 10 unnamed administration officials or political operatives of putting the Wilsons and their children's lives at risk by exposing Plame.

"This lawsuit concerns the intentional and malicious exposure by senior officials of the federal government of ... (Plame), whose job it was to gather intelligence to make the nation safer and who risked her life for her country," the Wilsons' lawyers said in the lawsuit.

Libby is the only administration official charged in connection with the leak investigation. He faces trial in January on perjury and obstruction-of-justice charges, accused of lying to FBI agents and a federal grand jury about when he learned Plame's identity and what he subsequently told reporters.

Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald told Rove's lawyer last month that he had decided not to seek criminal charges against Rove.


Standard of evidence is lower in civil trial than criminal.

Watch this.

Oh, and there's a Joseph & Valerie Wilson Legal Support Website now.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
09:55 / 14.07.06
This is going to be interesting. Already the left wing bloggers and radio people are bringing up the fact that the way Clinton was dragged to Impeachment was because of a civil suit, since all they had to do was catch him in a lie.

This could get interesting, especially if the Democrats gain control of the House or Senate, becaue it could turn into "Revenge for Clinton" REAL fast, especially the way Republicans have been using the trappings of power against them.
 
 
Slim
04:35 / 08.09.06
Top!

Don't we look silly.
 
 
grant
07:12 / 08.09.06
Simple incompetence?

Hmm.
 
 
Baz Auckland
07:25 / 08.09.06
"I made a terrible mistake, not maliciously, but I made a terrible mistake," former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage said in a telephone interview from his home Thursday night.

He said he did not realize Plame's job was covert.

"I did what I did," Armitage said. "I embarrassed my president, my secretary, my department, my family and I embarrassed the Wilsons. And for that I'm very sorry."


...so that's that then?
 
 
Slim
12:11 / 08.09.06
I highly, highly doubt that Armitage revealed anything with malicious intent.
 
 
ibis the being
20:03 / 27.01.07
I'm afraid the title & abstract of this thread are now hideously out of date, but I figure this is still the place to follow the story....

Ex Cheney Aide Spills the Beans About Media Manipulation.

No one served up spicier morsels than Cheney's former top press assistant. Cathie Martin described the craft of media manipulation — under oath and in blunter terms than politicians like to hear in public.

The uses of leaks and exclusives. When to let one's name be used and when to hide in anonymity. Which news medium was seen as more susceptible to control and what timing was most propitious. All candidly described. Even the rating of certain journalists as friends to favor and critics to shun — a faint echo of the enemies list drawn up in Richard Nixon's White House more than 30 years ago.
 
  

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