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At the risk of sounding like an apologist or hopeless optimist, I do think that Phallicus comes across as much more amenable to debate than Shadowsax ever was. The fact that Phallicus keeps changing argument midstream is actually a sign of retreat in the face of a *better* argument. Which is a step in the right direction, if you ask me, and may set up enough cognitive dissonance after a while to actually have an impact.
But I think Deva's idea of a basic stats on the disadvantaged thread is excellent, though I think it would deserve some discussion, since the stats are actually rather complex as I recall, not least because poverty, class, race, life expectancy, rate of incarceration and so on correlate, and plausibly have causal relations in some cases. Still, having basic facts laid out would be great, though my experience of doing so is mixed - just a few days ago, I tried to make a point about casualty figures in Israel and the Occupied territories which were dismissed on the grounds that anyone collecting such figures was biased (I think he conceded that he would accept UN figures, which don't exist as far as I'm aware). The power of bald denial can be rather astounding at times. |
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