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My thoughts thrown together-on leadership

 
 
Ender
06:33 / 09.01.05
It is all for us, to learn, to love, and to teach and reach the levels of clarity that enable us inner peace. We are they that bring order into the crazy nights, the thinkers for the thoughtless. We ride in the eyes of the storms that plunder all of the world on every side, and at all hours of the day. We have been armed with understanding, gifted with the powers of persuasion, and tempered by the sands of time. We
were born in the rifts of chaos and thrown into the madness. It is for us to fight until we can not, and still some how stand, finding within ourselves what we always knew, but never fully understood. We stand uniting a people. We stand for, and because of our families. We stand like great men have stood
through out the history of our world, and we will continue standing until time itself has passed away.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
20:27 / 10.01.05
As a piece of work, BFD, this is a bit depressing.
 
 
Ender
21:54 / 10.01.05
What? Why?!
 
 
Alex's Grandma
22:31 / 10.01.05
Wel it's a bit, y'know, Triumph Of The Will.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
(prev. A Qalyn Signifier ==>)
15:36 / 11.01.05
I think what Alex might be getting at, Ender, is that the worship of leaders is usually a sign of fascist tendencies and, in men at least, a timid, fearful nature. People worship their leaders when they are afraid to make any decisions for themselves. Leaders don't carve order out of chaos, they just tell people what to do, and if you don't keep a close watch you'll find yourself doing something stupid because they told you to. So, it's a little depressing to see this sort of attitude, not only on Barbelith, gleaming bastion of individualism and liberty that it is, but in the Creation, which we usually reserve to air our glorious souls or play internet Mafia.

But anyway. You know how to string words together into sentences, which is good, but I think you need figure out what you're trying to say, then say it. For instance, you present us with the paradox "we will continue standing until time itself has passed away" but it's not clear to me what you mean by it. Vague but portentious-sounding constructions like this usually indicates that the writer hasn't really thought about what he means and wants to distract the reader. I mean, I'm speaking from experience here, I've done it myself.

So, like, work on that, maybe.
 
 
Smoothly
16:28 / 11.01.05
What I find interesting is that Qalyn talks about Leaders in the third person, whereas Ender instinctively reaches for the first.

It's also worth noting, that in the 60s, after Milgram, Asch et al, Leadership fell out of fashion, and Management theory emerged. But according to something I read at the weekend, Leadership is making something of a comeback. Blair recently established one of his 'Council for Excellence' in Management, and their first recommendation was that Leadership be taught in schools. Rather telling, don't you think?
 
 
A Haus of Minions
(prev. Jenna Elfman's Hollywood Haus)
16:51 / 11.01.05
Hmmm... I think this and Lionheart's recent piece both raise a question, which is *how rough* something ought to be before it goes into the Creation. Looking at this, I don't know how to answer the question "what are your thoughts", because, for example, I don't know whether this was whacked down drunk at 3am straight into the browser, or whether it is considered a sufficiently complete product that criticism is about revising rather than drafting.

On the other hand, I find the idea that Barbelith has until now been somehow immune to the lure of the Big Man mindset a bit hard to process as well. I'm disappointed that such a mindset should exist on Barbelith, certainly. After all, isn't this a website devoted to living by George Morrison's ideals, one of which was the distrust of charismatic figures?
 
 
Ender
01:30 / 12.01.05
Whoa there, a distrust of charismatic figures?! What kind of hateful paranoia is that? I am writing a paper in my political science class, and felt inspired by some great things that the leaders of our world have done. I felt that I might post some things here, I would appreciate it if everyone would show me the same respect as they show people who say negative things about government, it is an opinion, and point of view, nothing more.

In no way am I trying to say anything about the man, or how great he is. Creation is a forum for free thought, right? As I am typing this, and trying to ‘justify’ what I wrote, I am getting pissed. What the fuck, and how dare anyone try to put some bullshit label on something that I wrote with good intentions, and try to say that I had some kind of big bad boogy man motives behind it.

Morrison IS the reason the Barb exists, and yet so many of us seem to forget.

Charismatic figures…
 
 
Alex's Grandma
04:43 / 12.01.05
I'd recommend reading the last paragraph in the post you replied to, and especially it's last sentence, a bit more closely, B.
 
 
Ender
06:38 / 12.01.05
What where the invisibles, if not thinkers for the thoughtless? And are you trying to tell me that King Mob is not a leader?! The whole bloody band of characters was on a quest for clarity, and who isn’t looking for inner peace? They brought about chaos, for the wicked, in attempts to someday some how right the world. They rode in the eyes of storms, and were surrounded on every side, at all hours of the day. They were armed with a true understanding, and gifted with the powers of persuasion (odd magical abilities, and heavy weaponry), and they sure as shit were tempered by the sands of time. Every member of that fighting few was born in the rifts of chaos, and thrown to the madness. They fight and keep on fighting until it looks as though they can never win, and yet they find some talent within themselves. They unite for a cause, they stand for freedom, and for each other, they are family. They stand like they have always stood, and they will continue standing until time itself passes away.

(MOVE THIS TO CONVERSATION?)
 
 
Ender
09:48 / 12.01.05
Haus I apologize man. I really blew that one out of proportion, you’re right on several points, first, I excitedly wrote some pretty sounding words, and hastily posted it on the Barb. Second, I asked, ‘what are your thoughts’, thinking that people would share my excitement about the leadership of men like Winston Churchill(having just shut a book), and say things like, ‘gee ben, what you wrote made me think about all the great things Ronald Reagan did(in the event that you don’t care for Reagan insert favorite president here _______ ).”

Anyway, mistakes of the young, with tunnel vision. I am sorry that it took me an evening of thought to realize this, and a thanks to Alex and my attempts to realize what he was trying to tell me in his previous post, it clicked in my mind that I was not being attacked at all.

Having never used the term before, would this be an appropriate time to say- huggles?
 
 
A Haus of Minions
(prev. Jenna Elfman's Hollywood Haus)
11:03 / 12.01.05
Possibly. However:

1) Barbelith does not exist because of Grant Morrison. It exists because Tom Coates set it up. The name is a historical survival.

2) Creation is a forum for free thought, right?

No. At least, not entirely. It's a place for members of Barbelith to post their creative works, and for other members to discuss them. As a piece of creative work, Alex found its politics depressing. You may not have been aiming for that impression. More generally, as a piece of creative work, it is massively flawed, and those flaws make me wonder what kind of reaction you were looking for, and what you were aiming for the piece to do. That's the kind of reaction I would expect in response to "what are your thoughts?" in a Creation thread.

3) I think you might have missed the point of the Invisibles.
 
 
Ender
18:33 / 12.01.05
maybe, you cant really call the invisables easy to understand.

the apoligy stands, and I will be more carefull with what dribble I post here.
 
 
Jack Fear
19:12 / 12.01.05
you cant really call the invisables easy to understand.

Nor to spell, apparently...

(Sorry, couldn't resist)
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
(prev. A Qalyn Signifier ==>)
19:22 / 12.01.05
Mean!
 
 
Jack Fear
19:37 / 12.01.05
...says the man who basically called Ender a cowardly little fascist.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
(prev. A Qalyn Signifier ==>)
20:08 / 12.01.05
I'm mean, too!
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
(prev. A Qalyn Signifier ==>)
20:11 / 12.01.05
I probably have more sympathy for bad spelling than for fascism & cowardiss.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
(prev. A Qalyn Signifier ==>)
21:29 / 12.01.05
And are you trying to tell me that King Mob is not a leader?!

Yes. King Mob was an anarchist.
 
 
Ender
23:23 / 12.01.05
yes, but people followed him.

Good one Jack
 
 
A Haus of Minions
(prev. Jenna Elfman's Hollywood Haus)
00:16 / 13.01.05
You're a facist, Qalyn. And probably a rascist to boot.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
(prev. A Qalyn Signifier ==>)
01:54 / 13.01.05
Er, they really didn't, Ender. They sort of followed Jack Frost, but the whole point was that it was a movement without leaders.

Haus:



the

 
 
bio k9
22:45 / 13.01.05
Mount the rogue kitty?
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
(prev. A Qalyn Signifier ==>)
00:38 / 14.01.05
Yeah, baby!
 
 
THOR!
14:52 / 14.01.05
rogue and kitty must have very long forearms.

OR!!!!!

rogue's borrowed her power for a bit

BUT!!!!

wouldn't that leave kitty unconscious????
 
 
A Haus of Minions
(prev. Jenna Elfman's Hollywood Haus)
14:58 / 14.01.05
Anyone Shadowcat touches, she can phase with her. That includes touching their clothes, so she should be all right on the unconscious bit.
 
 
A Haus of Minions
(prev. Jenna Elfman's Hollywood Haus)
15:18 / 14.01.05
Sorry , inadequate. Rogue's right arm must be canted out and towards Kitty, so as to grip her outstretched left hand (behind masking wall).
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
(prev. A Qalyn Signifier ==>)
00:56 / 15.01.05
Maybe it's not a real boy, I mean wall.
 
  
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