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Underground > Radio & Music >

Keane = Gene

  
  

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A Haus of Minions
16:00 / 08.10.04
Oh God. It's only just struck me. They are, aren't they. And if that wasn't enough, I actually found myself thinking "hmmm. Nice chord change on that chorus" when their big sweepy single came onto the radio on the way into work just now. If my associates at the "covering ourselves in human excrement and voting Bush" club find out, they'll be mortified. There are some lines you don't cross...
 
 
Fly Beezy (War Minister)
16:12 / 08.10.04
No way, dude. Gene had a couple of half-decent songs - 'Olympian', 'London Can You Wait' - although thinking about it these were actually the same song - and 'Haunted By You'. They were also part of that first wave of Britpop bands who weren't politically conservative - very pro-queer, as I recall - y'know, spent a lot of time playing gigs with Echobelly (possibly).

Keane are a whole other proposition, as I understand. And not a pleasant one.
 
 
rizla mission
16:53 / 08.10.04
Yes.

Gene did a faintly acceptable imitation of the Smiths.

Keane do an even crapper (astonishingly) imitation of Coldplay.

Spot the difference.
 
 
Harhoo
18:05 / 08.10.04
'Be My Light, Be My Guide' justifies Gene. Or at least it did when I was 17.

I'd argue the main difference is that I can see how people could love Gene, whereas I reckon the sort of people who scrawl Tom Chaplin's name all over their exercise books are few and far betweem.
 
 
The Strobe
21:55 / 09.10.04
I can't really justify either Gene or Keane, but they both pale in comparison with Echobelly.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
23:18 / 09.10.04
Like a copy of a copy of something good, then. Presumably released because there's a large body of people out there who will recognise a product with coldplay elements in it and rush out to buy it.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
23:57 / 09.10.04
Oi. Yes, Keane are just an extension of the Coldplay brand -
Coldplay, after all, who are an innovative and one-time-only deal who owe nothing to anyone else.

Orrr... could it be that Coldplay and Keane are both enjoying success because there are a lot of people out there who like that kind of music? Me, for example. Neither are favourites of mine, but I really like what I've heard of theirs. And since when does music require your, or anyone's justification? I don't like much hip hop, but you don't hear me smugging on about how boring I find most of what I've heard.
 
 
E. Randy Dupre
02:21 / 10.10.04
So... what exactly are you suggesting, Jack? That "if you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"? Because that's going to make for real interesting threads.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
19:11 / 11.10.04
'Interesting'. Good choice of words. It's all very well parrotting the kind of snide remarks or blithe put-downs (or in some cases, just blunt insults) you'll find anywhere in the music media, safe in the knowledge that most people posting to this forum will agree with you or fail to be arsed to post to the thread. But that doesn't really make for an 'interesting' thread either, does it? This thread's a case in point. Mildly querisome initial post from Tann (Gene are conceptually similar to Keane? Really? Why?) and then the same old same old same old blah blah blah...

"I can't justify either..." (Good! Glad you posted!)

"I'd argue the main difference is that I can see how people could love Gene, whereas I reckon the sort of people who scrawl Tom Chaplin's name all over their exercise books are few and far between..." (So... what? You can see why Gene had fans, despite their pitiful sales indicating that they didn't have many, but you don't think Keane have fans, despite large sales? Or is it just that you don't think Keane have fans still within the school system? Oh, wait, this is a pithy remark, it doesn't have to make sense...)

"Gene did a faintly acceptable imitation of the Smiths. Keane do an even crapper (astonishingly) imitation of Coldplay. Spot the difference." (So, we assume that Keane's raison d'etre is to cash in on Coldplay's success, but make the assertion that they're really bad at being Coldplay. But they've achieved success! I don't understand. Is it just a really big coincidence? Oh, hang on... pithy remark. Gotcha).

"Keane are a whole other proposition [from Gene], as I understand. And not a pleasant one." (They don't sound pleasant? They sound fairly innocuous to me. Oh, wait, this is a political thing - they're not politically pleasant, like the editor of Artrocker. No? Um... They eat babies? I hadn't heard that... hang on. Is this a pithy remark again?)

The evidence of your safe, smug wit is overwhelming. I mean, we could have discussion of why we don't think Keane are a good band, and why Gene were ok, if you squinted at them in a poor light, or why Keane's music sucks, or about the tension between deriding a group's musical output for being safe and familiar when the post deriding it as such is nothing but a safe and familar viewpoint couched in safe and familiar terms... but actually, upon reflection, Tann's initial post wasn't in the nature of being a query, was it? It was... a pithy remark. About two bands whose names rhyme. Oh. Oh well.

*facepalms* And people wonder why the standard of music writing is seen to be so low...
 
 
E. Randy Dupre
20:05 / 11.10.04
Well, now that you've actually explained your complaint about the thread, I agree with you. There's a tendency here to dismiss disliked music with an offhand comment and not go to the bother of composing a reasoned post to do so. I'm not sure that's peculiar to Barbleith, but that doesn't excuse it.

Especially when people go to far greater lengths to explain why they like other music.
 
 
Grandma loves children
(prev. Old dear. Gin. Problems)
20:49 / 11.10.04
We assume that Keane's raison d'etre is to cash in on Coldplay's success

Well I suppose based on the evidence ( not just the album, but the videos, the interviews, just the way Keane have presumably decided to present themselves to the record-buying public, ) it's not hard to come to that conclusion, anyway. I don't really mind Keane personally - worrying about bands like that is like complaining when it rains, or about Julie Burchill - but as with Coldplay, it's a bit difficult to see why they're bothering really, unless their career's an ongoing experiment in how far you can take the whole * avoiding applying for a job at an accountancy firm * thing. And in that respect, I'd defintely applaud them for getting as far as they have ( their once-frowning dads are no doubt suitably chastened, ) but then again, while I'm not trying to say they should be Primal Scream or anything, they could at least look like they're enjoying their day in the sun. Middle class guilt is ok in a novel, but not, as far as I can see ( at least unless it's really taken to it's Nth degree, as with Radiohead, or in a different way Blur, ) in rock and roll.

Also, I do think that slagging the shit out of this or that band on an internet messageboard is qualitively different from having a go at a member of said thing personally, unless on some level you were secretly in love with them.
 
 
Harhoo
11:34 / 12.10.04
"I'd argue the main difference is that I can see how people could love Gene, whereas I reckon the sort of people who scrawl Tom Chaplin's name all over their exercise books are few and far between..." (So... what? You can see why Gene had fans, despite their pitiful sales indicating that they didn't have many, but you don't think Keane have fans, despite large sales? Or is it just that you don't think Keane have fans still within the school system? Oh, wait, this is a pithy remark, it doesn't have to make sense...)

Pithy. Cool; not been called pithy since that unfortunate incident in the orange peeling factory.

Anyway, to actually try and provide the, not that interesting, argument I claimed I originally was going to: the comparison I was drawing was not one based on sales/general popularity, but the more perceived one on the grounds that some people I knew were “GeneFans”; that Gene were the overriding band for them. Some bands this happens for (The Smiths, The Cure, Metallica), for some it just doesn’t seem to (are The Charlatans anyone’s favourite band?), and I was placing Keane, possibly unfairly I dunno, in this bracket.

Also: I do actually have a weakness for pianoey indie pop but Keane are so like, spring 2004. It’s all about Thirteen Senses now.
 
 
Fly Beezy (War Minister)
11:52 / 12.10.04
Tsk, I was trying to do that old "if you don't have anything nice to say, and can't say nothing at all, at least keep it brief" thing! I went into a bit of detail about Gene because I felt Haus was selling them short...

How's this for pithy:

Keane? Not keen.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
14:22 / 12.10.04
Yes, but why?

Thanks to The Doop, Harhoo and Alex for coming back reasonably to my little rant, and apologies for all the sarcasm. Apologies to for that last comment about 'standards in music writing', didn't make myself clear - I meant on Barbelith, and specifically in this forum. It just strikes me that elsewhere (Head Shop, Switchboard, etc) we're required to consider and structure what we're saying, whereas the Spectacle's fora are here to provide a bit of fluff for people bored with politics, theory etc. It's a criticism that's been levelled before - but c'mon, people. Where's the thought that goes into posts in other fora?
 
 
rizla mission
14:29 / 12.10.04
Hey, I try to put thought into my Spectacle posts (obviously silly threads like this one aside).

But then I find the convoluted debates that a lot of headshop-style threads descend into unspeakably tedious, so maybe we're working from different definitions..
 
 
E. Randy Dupre
15:26 / 12.10.04
You and me both, Riz, but explanations don't have to be convoluted. *Why* is sounding like Coldplay a bad thing? You can answer that without having your post turn into a Headshop-style, overly-complicated mess, surely?
 
 
Hulk
17:59 / 12.10.04
Hugo sounding like Coldplay isn't bad - its the mediocrity that goes with it- like dido or Joss stone or Jamie fucking Cullum- music that is so innoffensive its offensive- it shows real lack of flair or imagination- I mean its music for people who buy records in supermarkets (don't even get me started on that..)
I can sit in a bar and have any of these bands playing and not give a shit and I think thats why keane get so much stick on music boards- cos its music for people that don't like music- stuff that your mum might ask for a cd of for christmas- stuff they play in chain pubs for city twats and Virgin Radio...
whatever you say about liking it or not how can it measure to the Iggy circa 1970 or bowie in 78 or Morrisey in '83...
I don't even care for the fact that the singer looks like a hobbit- I saw Pixies twice this year and they fucking rocked and they look like shit- its not the look, its just the boring safeness of it all that gets me riled grrr...

The only similarity with gene other than the rhyming is the lack of imagination hmmm...
 
 
Fly Beezy (War Minister)
18:06 / 12.10.04
Buying CDs in Supermarkets doesn't have to be a bad thing: they're often cheaper than HMV, etc. Shame they don't stock a broader range, though.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:53 / 12.10.04
Hate Keane, love Gummo?
 
 
Hulk
19:16 / 12.10.04
yep fly boy cheaper because they can undercut the small independent record shops - where you buy all the nice obscure - or sometimes just a little left of centre records.

I know it sounds rightous but have you noticed that smaller cooler record shops where you can browse through the sections and find that cool 12" are disappearing- especially outside of London- The niche market in most towns sadly doesn't keep a record shop going no- matter how many of your buddys bought that Sonic Youth album- its the mainstream that keeps things afloat in the record shop world.

So great they sell CD's in tescos- do they have Iggy, WuTang or Pixies?

Do you want your record shop to die only to follow the american example of wal-mart refusing to stock x y or z albums cos they don't like the politics/artwork/lyrics of the band, feel it fits in with their marketing- don't think its not happening yet either- Walmart owns Asda- try ordering Big Black 'songs about fucking' you may find they don't/ won't stock it...

...of course bigger towns record shops will survive cos they have the niche audience- but i feel for the kids growing up in small towns like i did- yep i remember hearing tracks on John Peel and the ordering the 7" in my local independent- not a service likely for the Tesco shoppers- Busted & Keane for all...
its getting like Stepford wives or summit... this is why i hate mediocre music and bloody CD's in Tesco and bloody Keane its like a crap fragile eco system being fucked up by 'the system...'
bloody keane... bloody tescos
grumble grumble
 
 
The Natural Way
22:07 / 12.10.04
Keane? It's the usual gripe with me: The substitution of emotion for mawkish, maudlin sentiment - something that's becoming way to common with non-rock bands over here; the fact that there are no surprises; the fact that I've had more than one conversation at work recently about fucking "real music" recently, and Keane and Coldplay were cited as examples of same in both of them.

"Earnest" shit.

Complain away, Jack.
 
 
Life Critic
01:15 / 13.10.04
stuff that your mum might ask for a cd of for christmas

you calling my mum a wanker?
 
 
Fly Beezy (War Minister)
10:29 / 13.10.04
Yes, Copey's Brick, very good, they don't sell Big Black in Tesco, I think I mentioned something about the limited range myself, and I'm well aware what it's like to grow up somewhere that never had a decent small record shop, thanks. My point was that those people who do find themselves in a situation (sometimes geographical) where the only choice is a supermarket or a large record store that substantially overcharges and provides little in the way of a wider range, they can't be faulted for taking the former option. Mind you, I can think of at least one album coming out in the next couple of months that I may want to buy that will be stocked by supermarkets but not necessarily all yr little indie shops - Londoners really are spoilt for choice as we have a few shops on Berwick Street that are small and cheap but basically mainstream, too.

Anyway, we're getting off topic here - I guess what I'd say to bring things back (vaguely) is that any dislike of Keane has little to do with the fact that they're commercially successful or popular - there are plenty of relatively obscure but critically acclaimed bands who annoy me just as much (which isn't even that much).

Oh, and I'm not sure when was the last time one of my "buddies" bought a Sonic Youth record. Unless you mean Rizla.
 
 
rizla mission
11:56 / 13.10.04
Actually I bought the new Sonic Youth 2nd hand off ebay, thus undercutting absolutely everybody.. (it's on a major label anyway, so fuck it, nobody's gonna starve).

...of course bigger towns record shops will survive cos they have the niche audience- but i feel for the kids growing up in small towns like i did- yep i remember hearing tracks on John Peel and the ordering the 7" in my local independent- not a service likely for the Tesco shoppers- Busted & Keane for all...

Well growing up in South-West Wales I remember hearing tracks on John Peel and literally not having a record shop of any kind within an hour's drive..

Mail order, internet, hometaping blah blah ; Tescos etc. can do whatever they like, anybody who cares will always have better ways to get the stuff they want.
 
 
Hulk
13:25 / 13.10.04
You talked me round, isn't tescos ace.
i'm gonna buy a keane album now...
Yawn...
 
 
Fly Beezy (War Minister)
13:28 / 13.10.04
Oh, okay, so you're not interested in or capable of reading what people actually write at all?

Good to know.
 
 
Jack Fear
16:09 / 13.10.04
Finally heard a Keane song, by way of seeing the video, having previously known nothjing at all about them except what I'd read here, and GODDAMMIT, Haus! The topic abstract led me to expect Mexican wrestling masks! I watched the whole damn video (well, most of it) in the expectation of seeing a crypto-bondage smackdown and instead got nothing but moody bittersweet adult contemporary pop belted out by a hefty nerd sporting an unpleasant haircut and wearing his ugly leather jacket zipped to the neck, if you credit it.

As I said, I did not watch the video to the end; but at the point where I tuned out, even if they had introduced Mexican wrestling to the scenario, it could only have been far too litle, far too late.

I feel utterly cheated. And not so much by the "band" themselves.

O Barbelith, you have betrayed me once again!
 
 
A Haus of Minions
16:48 / 13.10.04
Dude, you missed a *sweet* hurricanrana off the top of the piano...
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
21:50 / 13.10.04
Hey, at least it was a clean finish. Four star frog off the top rope and a roll-up - no run ins, no DQ. Classy.

Copey's Brick is just exhibiting the kind of indie-boy snobbery and gormless arrogance you'll find on any 'I Love Music' style message board anywhere online. I love the way he says that it's "music for people who don't like music" - cliched, exclusionary and (oxy)moronic. Your mother must be so proud, Cope.
 
 
Hulk
10:44 / 14.10.04
she is bless her...
 
 
lonely as a cloud...
10:54 / 14.10.04
I have successfully avoided Keane myself, as, having read reviews from what I consider to be trustworthy sources, I don't think I'd like them.
As to Gene, I loved them as a miserable student; recently, I thought to myself "Wow, Gene were great, I should really get some of their stuff" - I bought a couple of their albums on cassette at the time, but sold all my cassette albums to a second hand shop when I needed money...*shame* - anyway. Listening to them again, I thought they were ace, apart from Martin Rossiter. His lyrics would make Morrissey on a bad day cringe, and his vocals just scream "I'm trying so hard, so very very hard!" Bleurgh.
 
 
lonely as a cloud...
10:59 / 14.10.04
Mind you, Steve Mason was a very decent guitarist. Which leads me to wonder - how can Keane (who, I'm informed, don't play guitars) sound like Gene (singer wanted to be Morrissey, guitarist wanted to be Paul Weller)? Apart from the fact that their names sound alike...
 
 
Hulk
11:31 / 14.10.04
Jack...
The question was asked by Dupre

"What is wrong with sounding like Coldplay?"

I answered with

"sounding like Coldplay isn't bad - its the mediocrity that goes with it-"

you replied..

"Copey's Brick is just exhibiting the kind of indie-boy snobbery and gormless arrogance you'll find on any 'I Love Music' style message board"

sorry if i got this wrong but isn't this just "any 'I Love Music' style message board"?
I do love music and i'm talking about it- if thats snobbery well so what? It's an opinion... you all said the music boards were getting boring.. sorry if i trod on the 'lets all agree they're ace toes...'

If i've entered a debate and said i think Keane are a bit crap cos they sound like another boring bland band that are the current house wifes choice- whats wrong with that?

I'm merely saying i don't think they challenge anything and they're a bit boring... what's all the fuss about... they're not sexy, they don't make music we haven't heard hundreds of other bands doing before- they're a safe bet- nothing wrong with that well done...
 
 
Bear
14:15 / 14.10.04
I don't like em, there's not much that I don't like but something about them bothers me I'm just not sure what it is.

My mum likes them though and I bet she bought the album in ASDA.

Cow.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
14:20 / 14.10.04
No, what you said was...

"its music for people who buy records in supermarkets"

"its music for people that don't like music"

...which is setting up a nice cosy 'us n' them' divide, with you as the real music lover, and Keane and their fans as... not. Not liking proper music, liking music as a distraction, a pleasant background noise etc. Of course, the music you like is proper music, made by people (like you!) who love proper music.

I mean, this rubbish? Keane? It's just so... inoffensive that it actually offends you! And everyone who buys it offends you too, because they're not real music fans like you. How dare they like music so dull? Who do they think they are, calling themselves music fans? Twats!

Don't worry, Cope. You're not alone - there are loads of indie-boys (a whole archetype full, in fact) who'd jabber the same rote response as this when asked about Keane, or Coldplay, or Dido. In fact, its such a safe, familiar, cozy response that it's actually a cliche. A boring, dull, safe, mediocre cliche.
 
  

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