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Thinking of joining an occult group

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01:03 / 15.03.06

Pye, this thread is a little more recent and on a similar topic. If you're so upset that semantics have "derailed" this two-years' dead thread, and you're interested in the topic, try topping the other one instead. Alternatively, there may be some discussion there which will help you further reflect on the points you've raised.

Inversus's air of entitlement made me angry, and your patronizing words also made me angry, so as much as I might find the topic compelling, I don't want to engage in it with the two of you at this time. I post only to make a recommendation which you may find helpful or not.

--

02:59 / 15.03.06

I had totally forgotten about this one... Ironically, I'm still in contact with the people I mentioned in the initial post, but oddly enough we almost never talk about magic. I'll have to ask them about what's going on with the group next time I'm in touch with them.

Pyewacket The Elder

10:29 / 15.03.06

Pyewacket, if you choose to exercise what you believe is your right to make comments that others here find threatening or hostile, I for one reserve the right to attempt to persuade the community to seek your expulsion.

Did you read my post? I said:

so sometimes I chose NOT to use certain words in certain company (i.e use consideration and discretion).

Someone else said:
and your patronizing words also made me angry, so as much as I might find the topic compelling

Like this?:

I love the idea of a magician who doesn't believe that words mean anything. Bless his little heart.

Again did you read my post? I did not state that words are meaningless. At the very least words are behave like an ‘entity’ of sorts comprised of meanings via many other words in an agreed consensus amongst a local tribe. This meaning exists as a ‘state’ of the human nervous system and brain (with attended images feelings etc etc). The word is a gestalt. Bind a demon or a god (a complex of things) by knowing its name – its handle. A singular sigil by which to move many meanings (states of the nervous system) and therefore your world.

So yes I agree with you - I stated that they are not the things they describe which is damn verifiable. Try eating this word: “Sandwhich”. I am stating something and I Humbly Ask for intelligent engagement with the points made according with Barbelith policy. So far we are still off topic unless that topic is “berate the newbie for his unenlightened ideas”.

Okay its dead topic but it certainly looked at the top of the pile when I logged on…so sue me.

A Haus of Minions

10:43 / 15.03.06

Gosh. Me wish me read Robert Anton Wilson. Then me also talk pretty. He am best structural linguistics tutor EVAH!

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

10:51 / 15.03.06

Ooh, me too! Wobert Anton Wilson am a vewy cwever wabbit.

Fly Beezy (War Minister)

11:08 / 15.03.06

Try pulling this word out of your face: "FACEKNIFE".

Mordant Carnival

11:09 / 15.03.06

Sorry, chum, but you just don't get to spout that kind of drivel and then run away crying threadrot when you get called on it.

Words be funny, words be angry,words be right, words be wrong, BUT THEY ARE NOT THE THING THEY DESCRIBE. I reserve the right to find an ACTION abhorent but a word whatever i chose given the appropriate context.

Well, bully for you eh? Not everyone reading this board has had the kind of life experience tht allows them the luxury of detachment from emotionally loaded terms. For some people, seeing certain words and expressions used in a flippant, uncaring, insensitive way (on a board that's supposed to be a space in which we actually think and examine our ideas and how we express those ideas, supposed to be fucking inclusive) is going to be an emotional slap in the face. Seeing enough people like you mindlessly and unthinkingly defend that kind of usage might be enough to put them off the board forever.

Know what? I for one simply do not care if you feel "berated." Look at yourself. You're demanding that rape jokes in a thread on feminism go unchallenged while you and your ilk be offered the kid-gloves treatment. Why, because your delicate little assumptions might get bruised? Hard bloody cheese.

trouser the trouserian

11:10 / 15.03.06

Pye
You might find this selection of articles of interest, however, they are a bit dated in that they do not address the increasing role of the internet in promoting and mediating magical groups. Perhaps you could say a little more about what kind of group you are intending to set up - its aims, specifities, etc.?

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

11:23 / 15.03.06

Or, just fuck off?

Smiley, funny face onlyjokingofcourse welcome love the erudite original thinking keep up the good work yeah?

12:08 / 15.03.06

Words be funny, words be angry,words be right, words be wrong, BUT THEY ARE NOT THE THING THEY DESCRIBE. I reserve the right to find an ACTION abhorent but a word whatever i chose given the appropriate context.

And so what is the "appropriate" reaction in this "context"? An internet space, where we are having a very intense discussion about feminism, anger and related issues? What is the "appropriate reaction" when someone barges in and posts a hil-l-l-arous drinking song about gangbanging?

Words may not be equivalent to what they describe, but this does not mean they are somehow, magically, stripped of consequences, and value free. All the more so on the net, where they are all we have to communicate with.

Choosing to use your language in a certain way, making choices about the words you use, *is* an action. Choosing to use offensive language, and then getting defensive about it when challenged is another action, and choosing to patronise a load of people without actually thinking seriously about the issues involved and why people might care about them, is yet another.

Stoat-ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH

12:55 / 15.03.06

Oh Haus, c'mon. You can learn a lot from RAW. I, for example, to this day never whistle while I'm pissing. And... erm, that's it, really.

Pyewacket The Elder

19:49 / 15.03.06

Cool Stoat - so you did all the exercises yah? What were the results? What ones did you find useful and which ones weren't? Which books specifically? Can you PM me if you think it's outside of topic I'd be genuinely interested in knowing your opinions and results.

Try pulling this word out of your face: "FACEKNIFE".

DUDE!! I could kiss you! That's SO my new band name - been wracking me brains for two bleeding months to come up with something short sharp and biting and YOU sir have been the instrument of COOL. For that you get a

"MWAAHHHHHHH KISSIES AND SLOPPY HUGLETS!" Thanks fella!

Trouser - Thank you very much for the links, What I have read so far has been extraordinarily helpful. Great Site too if I may say - clever bloke that Hine fella.

In terms of the project I am involved in I basically envision something like TOPY but without all the dangerousness because I want to infect the mainstream NOT prove how radical I am by alienating them. This is manifesting as an actual practicing magickal group and identity forming a loose hub within a wider and chaotic network of artists, musicians, capitalists and alternative cultures based in and around my local area. The goal is to bring about more positive change over time and promote things that involve honesty of expression, compassion and having cool times for those who are interested. The getting laid thing doesn't hurt either of course. FNARR!

Mordant Carnival

20:17 / 15.03.06

So are you actually going to bother engaging with what's been said here, or are you going to blather on about your plans for TOPY lite until everyone else gets bored and goes away?

20:21 / 15.03.06

In terms of the project I am involved in I basically envision something like TOPY but without all the dangerousness because I want to infect the mainstream NOT prove how radical I am by alienating them. This is manifesting as an actual practicing magickal group and identity forming a loose hub within a wider and chaotic network of artists, musicians, capitalists and alternative cultures based in and around my local area. The goal is to bring about more positive change over time and promote things that involve honesty of expression, compassion and having cool times for those who are interested. The getting laid thing doesn't hurt either of course. FNARR!

I don't want to be smirking or arrogant (gods know I'm not entitled to), but that whole paragraph seem to have been copied and pasted from "The Book of How to Sound Cool Even When You're Not - And Maybe Score With Hot Chicks". You're gonna have to be more specific to convince me that you're serious on "infecting the mainstream".

And what is TOPY anyway?

Mordant Carnival

20:28 / 15.03.06

Thee Temple ov Psychick Youth.

I still say it should be "Yoof". And have a picture of n. molesworth in a tau robe as the logo.

Pyewacket The Elder

22:01 / 15.03.06

I still say it should be "Yoof". And have a picture of n. molesworth in a tau robe as the logo.

It is the headmasters robe as ani fule kno! lol Always good to meet a Molesworth fan - "my veins stood out like whipcords" indeed.

I might just adopt that idea Mr.

In addition to my earlier comment I have been beavering away simulating the structure using the dreaded MYSPACE system..... It's proving a useful modeling tool!

22:23 / 15.03.06

Yoof yoof

Down boy. Bad dog

[that joke was inevitable]

And you know what's really funny? The double "e" in "thee" and the "v" in "ov" are not typos from MC. What's up with that? Is that supposed to prove these guys are rebels who defy all norms?

And they have a "sigil garden", of all things!!!! (boring?) I hope looking at sigils which meanings I don't know doesn't turn me into a newt-identified otherkin...

22:32 / 15.03.06

What's up with that?

Playing around with language. It was probably an interesting idea when Genesis began to experiment with it, back whenever, but it's since become TOPY "house style" which kind of misses the point.

22:41 / 15.03.06

I'm guessing we can take this as "No, I'm not going to respond."

Tread lightly, folks around here have long memories.

22:49 / 15.03.06

Strong truth!

So, this "language play" actually works? Interesting.

I didn't mean to offend anyone with my comment up there. Well, ok, maybe I did a bit, but not any barbelithian, and certainly not Ilmatic.

Mordant Carnival

22:58 / 15.03.06

Two small questions:

1) Do you ever actually think of anything yourself? Like, make up your own band names and shit?

2) Do you think that adopting this whacky, palsy-walsy act is impressing anyone? I mean, has that that ever worked?

Pyewacket The Elder

22:59 / 15.03.06

Well to fair I have a lot of respect For P-Orridge even if some of his followers that i met were a bit 'fruitbar' (they kept on waving pamphlets at me and pointing at pictures and saying stuff about 'neurology' - lets just say it didn't quite tally with my readings of medical Neurolgy but sounded really cool which was, i'm sure, the whole point)

The spellings were either mere affectation and/or meant to operate as a group binding device - consider the systemic results across the entire muslim population of their bowing to mecca as a centralised point - different action similar results of being included in a larger structure (egregore??) and being different than anyone who is 'not-that'.
Lest anyone mistake this for anything but an example you can also consider the classic salutation to the sun of Golden Dawn type magick as operating in a simlar manner or even something as mundane as the jargon utilised in any given field of academia.

23:53 / 15.03.06

Oh, much hilarity.

Moving away from the jocular for a minute Pyewhacket, seriously, have you got the skin of a Walrus? Do you even care that people may have some issue with your choice of words?

I really hope you do. You'll find things a lot easier if you try and engage with the issues rather than 'la-la-la-ing' along with your fingers in your ears. There are lots of lovely people here who are very willing to engage with anyone as long as that poster spends a little time thinking about how their words affect others.

trouser the trouserian

00:10 / 16.03.06

...in terms of the project I am involved in I basically envision something like TOPY but without all the dangerousness because I want to infect the mainstream NOT prove how radical I am by alienating them.

What "dangerousness" would that be then?

There are several former members of TOPY on this board (including myself). You seem to be doing a pretty good job of alienating all by yourself, at the moment.

00:21 / 16.03.06

I Am Not Listening To You.

Mordant Carnival

00:27 / 16.03.06

I'm pretty sure he actually has me on Ignore at this point.

Sweet.

00:36 / 16.03.06

(Walks into the Tate Modern)

'Hell, I could do better than that!'

(Walks out again)

(Does nothing of interest)

Pyewacket The Elder

00:44 / 16.03.06

Trouser - Gen presented a challenging and dangerous image (to some). I don't know many people at my work who would dig that but I do know many who would like to be able to attend clubs that arn't predicated on mainstream music (and this is a problem in my area).
Again as I mentioned I think TOPY did some amazing stuff - I'm not dissing it I'm just saying that that is not what we're interested in recreating in terms of image - but structure yes!. Apologies to you if that is how it seemed. As to the the couple of chaps I met that is a real encounter and i make no apologies for describing it as it seemed at the time.

If anyone is interested in investigating this all more then I cannot speak higher of this book:
Rapid Eye
Yes I guess I have alienated some but I have made my point clumsily but lucidly about my belief in semantics and experience and I have yet to have a rational discussion about it - just goadings, name callings and in one case an expression of extreme violence towards my face. I do not think this acceptable behaviour in the real world let alone on a forum.
I have not, and am not making any comments on the issues of feminism or Deus' misogyny quotiant. My posts do not, and will not make that comment - the first DID have a fairly obvious note about what i think of Deus' behaviour ('considerate' was the message i was sending him if you reread it) but i see no reason to throw my ideological opinion around in a thread about occult groups.

Apologies all. I have stated my position and I hope you can accept that i bear no ill will nor will I accept any ill will. That is my position. Can we talk about magick yet?

Fly Beezy (War Minister)

01:34 / 16.03.06

in one case an expression of extreme violence towards my face.

Where was that? It can't be anything I posted, as I only used WORDS, which are not the things they describe, even if they are mistaken for them by tribes.

(When I say "tribes" I do not just mean the primitive people who live in actual tribes but in a sense we are all part of tribes for example the mainstream tribe. When we lived in caves it was helpful to think of the word 'fire' as meaning an actual FIRE, however now we ought to have advanced to the next level of belief system unfortunately some of us are still trapped in a primitive reality tunnel.)

My point is I have shown how language can be used as a tool of control, I have produced a reaction in you by activating the programming you were not aware had even been embedded in your psychic network! You need to deprogramme yourself and advance to the next level and then you will be able to take a JOKE!!11!

Mordant Carnival

01:38 / 16.03.06

Yes I guess I have alienated some but I have made my point clumsily but lucidly about my belief in semantics and experience and I have yet to have a rational discussion about it

Fine. Start a rational discussion about semantics and experience. You might want to start it in the Convo. Be prepared, however, for engagement with people who've actually thought this stuff through.

just goadings, name callings and in one case an expression of extreme violence towards my face. I do not think this acceptable behaviour in the real world let alone on a forum.

Surely you can rise above mere semantics?

I have not, and am not making any comments on the issues of feminism or Deus' misogyny quotiant.

Really.

My posts do not, and will not make that comment - the first DID have a fairly obvious note about what i think of Deus' behaviour ('considerate' was the message i was sending him if you reread it) but i see no reason to throw my ideological opinion around in a thread about occult groups.

But that's pretty much what you did. And are doing. I'd also like to see you expand a little on 'considerate'--he's considerate? Should be more considerate? If the former, I'd like you to further expand on what the everloving fuck you're on about.

Can we talk about magick yet?

Yes, can we? If you want to talk about occult groups, there's a lovely shiny active thread which id_entity linked you to, rather than this one which effectively dead until your chum bumped it to tell us about the REAL HOGD. If you want to complain about political correctness gone maaaaad, there's a thread here which you might care to peruse before you, just f'rexample, start complaining about lefty fascists again.

You might also want to spend some time thinking about why you've generated this kind of reaction.

Pyewacket The Elder

01:45 / 16.03.06

That's fine Fly Boy. Couch it however you like dude. If you wish to discuss semantics or the subjectivity of the human nervous system I'll create a special post where appropriate or PM if you like - happy to have a discussion.

It's still a great band name tho and its all mine!

A Haus of Minions

01:51 / 16.03.06

Yes I guess I have alienated some but I have made my point clumsily but lucidly

Half right.

Mordant Carnival

01:58 / 16.03.06

It's still a great band name tho and its all mine!

http://www.thefaceknife.org/

Pyewacket The Elder

01:59 / 16.03.06

Yes Mordaunt I have been checking those threads but thank you for pointing them out at this stage after everything. Your input as moderator has been noted.

Pyewacket The Elder

02:11 / 16.03.06

It's still a great band name tho and its all mine!

http://www.thefaceknife.org/

And you called ME unoriginal! this git has nicked Fly Mans ''!

Shocking. Maybe u can sue him or send demons or maybe just mock him into legal submission.

I'm off to bed my dears I have a job to go to and don't want to spend all night at the Puter and give myself crushing depression with which to justify my failure to get up and DO STUFF. That was when i was 17 and that was a long time ago. Tomorrow is sunny and fine and looking good.

Sweet dream y'all - don't let the night-hags bite!!!!

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