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DC Universe Surgery

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miss wonderstarr

09:24 / 26.04.06

doctorbeck

10:10 / 26.04.06

au cointraire, the love of discovering the gay subtexts (tho there is not much sub about these texts) in mainstream media is a longstanding pastime of homosexuals and the people who love them. in fact there is a whole publishing and academic industry devoted to just that. see mark simpsons work for a brilliant excavation of morcombe and wise, laurel and hardy and football terminology for example. personally these panels have made my day.

miss wonderstarr

12:07 / 26.04.06

Well, yes I know, but there's a difference between discovering and celebrating them as a secret, unspoken history of same-sex love within a repressive era, and discovering them, then saying "I can't believe how dirty those supposedly clean-cut comics were! the writers were devaint perves!"

I'm not suggesting anyone here was saying that, or even that Superdickery is doing so. But I think there are different ways of approaching and uncovering gay innuendos and overtones in "officially-straight" texts.

a_black_medallion_for_sulking

14:31 / 26.04.06

With regard to thirty/thirty's comment, I was wondering when reading that Superdickery site if in fact there isn't a fair bit of homophobic humour in it ~ you know, like "we thought those 1950s comics were so innocent but look how perverted they are; they're full of gay overtones!" Increasingly I don't know if this should go on another thread.

I felt the same way when I first visited the site. That's why I posted selected images from the site that I felt was appropriate. Some of the comments made by the site's author do veer a little to closely to that "ew, look Batman's gay! Yukky!" playground homophobia but for the most part it is light-hearted (like Joker making a goat tongue Batman's open mouth). If you'd like, we can move to have the link to the site removed, that would be fine by me. I just thought people would like to know where to find more of the same.

miss wonderstarr

14:39 / 26.04.06

Oh, I wouldn't say that, and I'm in no position of authority to recommend it anyway. I just think it's worth discussing. Would you consider starting a thread about this site and the process and politics of finding "gay readings" in "officially-straight" old comics?

a_black_medallion_for_sulking

14:49 / 26.04.06

Sure why not.

Deculture Decedent

20:37 / 26.04.06

I thought the legacy of Wally Wood was that, essentially, everbody involved in comics was a perv of one angle or another? Involving rich old bat-eared leatherdaddies or otherwise.

Jake, Colossus of Clout

22:02 / 26.04.06

As to the location of Metropolis, I read somewhere (Les Daniels Superman book, maybe?) that Siegel and Schuster intended it to be an analogue of Toronto, not Chicago.

The Science Dad

12:31 / 27.04.06

I recently re-read DnA's 'Resurrection Man' and wonder if anyone knows what the untold origin of this character was.
There were lots of 'clues' and blind alleys toward the end of the series, was the ending ever told anywhere? In particular, I noticed that in virtually every resurrected form, Mitch Shelley managed to wear a belt buckle with the initals 'CSA' on it. Was there a super-meaning to this? Was Resurrection Man really an undercover narc for the Child Support Agency?

Jack Fear

13:32 / 27.04.06

CSA = Confederate States of America.

Aertho

14:56 / 27.04.06

Does anyone know who all the secondary characters are in that Battle for Blüdhaven mini?

There's Gardner Grayle's Atomic Knights, and Captain Atom, that Peter Monolith golem, an Earth 8 Firebrand (With firepowers maybe?), Freedom's Ring that is now S.H.A.D.E. consisting of Major Force, Major Victory, Lady Liberty, Silent Majority, Human Bomb, Blockbuster, Phantom Lady, and Doll Man? Then there's the villains like Mister Nitro, Reactor, Geiger, and three others.

Are these all new characters?

Mario

15:06 / 27.04.06

I haven't read #2, but according to my sources, the villains in #1 were all pre-existing, the members of Freedom's Ring are new, and this is a new version of the Knights.

Aertho

23:02 / 01.05.06

Did one of the Crises fix this? If so, how?

Mario

23:06 / 01.05.06

That's from his first appearance as the android. It was cleared up by the end of the storyline.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

19:56 / 02.05.06

Did aquaman really fight someone called Captain Noah?

Mario

23:24 / 02.05.06

Yes, in Adventure Comics #271. One shot villain, who used the ID to cover up a plan to extract gold from seawater.

sn00p

17:54 / 07.05.06

So im wondering about the robins in OYL.

So is robin that's in The New Teen Titans the same as the robin hanging with Batman?
Whats Dick Grayson up to?
Is Jason Todd alive in continuity and the new nightwing?
Are there anymore Robins ex-robins?

Mario

18:29 / 07.05.06

So is robin that's in The New Teen Titans the same as the robin hanging with Batman?

Yep, Tim Drake, just coming off a year of training.

Whats Dick Grayson up to?

Running the Outsiders while dealing with his double in NYC.

Is Jason Todd alive in continuity and the new nightwing?

Yes, thanks to SBP-punches. While there are two people playing Nightwing in the ongoing (now based in NYC) the Nightwing in Outsiders has been identified as Dick Grayson.

It's probable that at some point, Jason Todd will return to the Red Hood ID, or find a new one.

Are there anymore Robins ex-robins?

No. The only other person to ever take the role was Stephanie Brown, who remains dead. However, history has shown that this may not be the end of her story.

sn00p

18:55 / 07.05.06

Thank you.

Was she the one who died in war games?

Mario

19:34 / 07.05.06

Yeppers. She didn't last long.

Aertho

23:29 / 07.05.06

I'd like Mario, and any others to help me super-sex-ify the Orion character.

As Michael Chabon's article on Big Barda demonstrated a sense of the female capacity for testosterone, how does the male equivalent play out? I think we're all aware of the fact that testosterone is the male sex hormone, but I'm interested in the portrayal of aggression, the necessity to "quell the beast inside"... as well as the wargod/sexgod link-ups. Ares in coitus? Kratos? Then there's always the bad father/angry son thing...

Basically, I'm looking for inspiration for another Project Rooftop design, and I want to extrapolate the sensualist nature of the New Gods. Especially between Sollis and O. Anyone have any links for phallus-y traditional helmets/headresses?

I've got a song to use as a conceptual soundtrack, and I see Orion as Trump 7 with his Astro Glider drawn by four invisible Starscreams, but any ideas for inspirations?

Mario

00:17 / 08.05.06

If I were going to redesign Orion, I'd treat him as a high-tech version of Conan the Barbarian. Lose the tights. Give him an armored vest (to hold his mother box and interface with his Astro-Glider) and a Kirbyish kilt (a la Galactus). Toss in high boots & gauntlets, and he's protected enough for combat.

Really, the biggest problem with his outfit is the helmet. It's really hard to draw well. However, given that he's also known as "the Dog of War", this look or this one, with a more canine spin, might work better.

As for the Glider... A while back, I thought I came up with it's origin. If you take a motorcycle and strip away everything but the handebars and the stirrups for the feet, but keep the body in the same posture, you end up looking a lot like Orion.

(In other words, Orion is a Hell's Angel

)

Taking that into consideration, perhaps some sort of holographic steed or skycycle might work better?

Mario

00:23 / 08.05.06

Meh... the first link I gave doesn't allow direct linking. Try this one

And while you are at it, look at this link for my fave pic of Conan

Billuccho!

00:24 / 08.05.06

Oh c'mon, I love the helmet. It's gloriously Kirby. And Simonson's "redesign" was fine with me, with the extra silver bits on the torso so he doesn't look crap when he gets off the Astro Glider, which admittedly sounds like some kind of exercise device.

A new design would need to find a way to play up the "dueling internal natures" aspect of his character, melding the hardened battle-scarred warrior bits and the soothed beast of New Genesis bits and still look space-age Kirby-y.

Mario

00:37 / 08.05.06

Oh, Kirby could draw it well (as could Simonson) but I've seen some horrid attempts. If you give him a "wolf helm" look, the upright ears would maintain the classic silhouette.

And little-known fact about the redesign. It wasn't a new look for him. Look familiar?

Aertho

00:58 / 08.05.06

Oh, I'm all about changing the silhouette. If I can get away with dropping Barda's cape and headdress, I'll put Orion in a jockstrap, jodhpurs and antlers.

Which is kind of where I'm at. Tasteful, mind.

As far as I care, I want to keep the colors, and their general ratio... but everything else can change. I'll explore linework relfective of wolves and big cats. I wanted to try a spartan or hoplite helmet with the big mohawk type thing, but that's too OMAC-y.

Costume design is becoming more and more streamlined... I want to try to do something new and distinctive. And with Orion, I was thinking making that helmet even more of an eyesore. He's the "Dog" or war, true, but he's big and brash and boastful and arrogant, and in the animal( see totemic/mythic) world, that eqautes to big horns and manes and stuff, but antlers are a bitch to draw. Maybe ram horns?

ALL KINDS OF DEAD TREES
(prev. Papers regarding Tlön & Uqbar)

01:19 / 08.05.06

Well, one of the suppositions made about the 4th World was that, because it came out after he left Marvel and doing the Mighty Thor, the "old gods" were the Norse Gods. You could play Orion as the anti-Thor, or as an extrapolation/evolution of Thor. Horns are in, but almost stubby versus the long, rippling Loki routine...

Aertho

01:23 / 08.05.06

While I'm REALLY loving the Hell's Angel biker motif that complements the Chariot idea, I still looking for help regarding mythological components. Like there's this guy, but he's seriously played out. Or any of the Scandinavian war gods. Besides Thor, who does Orion "feel" like?

I want this Orion to be this cold focussed hair-trigger guy that once on the battlefield, becomes a psychotic brawler, like Wolverine's "beserker rages" or Denfield's description of Marvel's Ares. If he is the Dog of war, I want to see some Batman-level strategy, but godthinking style, no superhijinks.

Aertho

01:33 / 08.05.06

Also: Any help super-sex-ifying Lightray would be appreciated as well.

LDones

01:45 / 08.05.06

Orion, the Ultimate Male!

All Drive, All Focus, All Penetration, All The Time!

He's the Angry Son of the Anti-Zeus.

He's like the Flash, but slow. Kirbykilt is a solid idea, but there's something to be said for a terrifying man on a chaotic battlefield in a unitard and bodypaint. Big ridiculous helm is good, but I would say that obvious horns are bad, maybe Kirby-ized angular New God protrusions substituting for ram horns or antlers on his ears and shoulders, to denote the prickliness of his pear.

Cosmic Conan The King Without A Throne, as suggested, feels very pure. Unstoppable. Able to be confused, delayed, distracted, but only for so long, like Death in the 7th Seal, or like Rock of Ages, where Orion is the Armageddon at the end of all life, his father's son.

Hand outstretched:
Orion! The Battlefield Is His Throne!

Silver-and-red Darkseid motifs speak to me.

Aertho

01:52 / 08.05.06

What's a Darkseid morif?

LDones

01:54 / 08.05.06

Motifs! Little traces of Darkseid creeping in at the edges.

ALL KINDS OF DEAD TREES
(prev. Papers regarding Tlön & Uqbar)

02:04 / 08.05.06

I stand by my assessment of Lightray...Apollo as Nineties Porn Star. No body hair, bleeding light. It could be easy to play him as a trickster but he's not, in any way...he's a free spirit...mix shaved pornstar with hippie flower child.

Do something with Fastbak, actually, while you're on New Gods time. You know. Fastbak, god of running shoes. The aero-soles.

Mario

02:14 / 08.05.06

Well, if you want high-tech horns, the best place to look is Japanese animation. There's an old anime called Grandizer you might find instructive.

Lightray...I see him as a cross between Kid Flash and Tron. I'm thinking that inverting (and possibly holographing, the way Van Sciver does GL emblems) his chest logo into an upward-pointing arrow fits his persona better. You might want to tweak the colors tho... the red is too dark.

There was an Elseworld version of him (I think Superman: The Dark Side) where his hair was "solid" light. I thought that was a useful tie to his nature.

Aertho

02:23 / 08.05.06

If Lightray is Orion's Barda... Barda is someone that Scott takes from Apokolips to be on New Genesis/Sollis is someone Orion takes from New Genesis to be on Apokolips... then he'd be Strength as well.

But teh gaye strength.

What is that? Should I go ask on Homo 101, or would I be laughed at?

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