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A question of ethics and love magic

What do you mean?

22:49 / 08.11.01

I have practiced some techniques over the years to project glamour and will attraction to myself (including the moon glance from lieber kaos) to much succcess- not to be rude- but to a point where at one time I was dating four sisters at the same time (and they all knew!). Until recently, I thought it was all good, I have a great sex life and a goregous girlfriend.
The problem is, I now have true feelings for her <perhaps even love>. I find myself doubting the relationship because I employed trickery to draw her to me. Now, it's all going bad- and I always expect the worst even though she really has never done anything wrong.
Anyhoo...my question is this:
1. Is it immoral to use magic to attract someone to you?
2. Is it wrong to continue to cast spells while in a relationship?
3. If yes, is it in my best interest to remove all magic I placed on her and see how it goes?
4. Or...if it is not wrong, anyone know a good " I'mtheonlyoneforyouandnooneelsewilldoforyoustaywithmeforever" spell that I could utilize?

A former partner told me my sex magic has backfired on me and that is why I am having my problems with her.Is that possible?

23:15 / 08.11.01

quote:Originally posted by What do you mean?:
1. Is it immoral to use magic to attract someone to you?

Yes, you are going to burn in hell. I suggest you die wearing bermuda shorts.

quote:A former partner told me my sex magic has backfired on me and that is why I am having my problems with her.Is that possible?

Yes, it is possible.

If you didn't want to have an interesting life, why did you become a magician?

-Rev. Jesse

18:04 / 09.11.01

nonono you did nothing wrong... glamors and attraction spells are no different then wearing nice cloths to impress her, a cologne that hypnotizes her, bringing her an offering of flowers, or writing her a love poem (hypersigil).
quote:is it in my best interest to remove all magic I placed on her and see how it goes?
You could also do this but this is a magic ritual in it's own right. In the end it's all magic tricks to get what you want: HER. And now that you actually love her, you're second guessing yourself and possibly fucking it up (unconsciously maybe?)
Think of this rough spot in your relationship as a test. Use magic or don't, if you pass you get to keep her.

What do you mean?

19:06 / 09.11.01

EEK!

19:25 / 09.11.01

quote:I find myself doubting the relationship because I employed trickery to draw her to me. Now, it's all going bad- and I always expect the worst even though she really has never done anything wrong.
I think this is the core of your problem. Why EEK? Now you know and knowing is half the battle!

Rex City-zen

19:27 / 09.11.01

I think he was eeking about Rev.Jesse's burning in hell comments...??

Rex City-zen

19:29 / 09.11.01

quote:4. Or...if it is not wrong, anyone know a good " I'mtheonlyoneforyouandnooneelsewilldoforyoustaywithmeforever" spell that I could utilize?

Say this ten times fast:I'mtheonlyoneforyouandnooneelsewilldoforyoustaywithmeforever

Trying to help...

19:35 / 09.11.01

Maybe this old thread from back in the day will help.

02:47 / 10.11.01

time to pull your head out of your ass. first i'm not angel i,ve used the art to meet wemon before. but heres the kech if you wont to see haw far this thing well relly go take eney spills off her and see wut happins and don't tell her you put eney on in the first place in the matters of love it's better to be honest thin to live a lie . we have freewill for a resun and for some one to take that away is a fucking sin in the worst way so free her take your medasin. and don't do it agine or all your relashonships will be shit in the . try to go it with out magick and if it works thin it's real and you are a rell lucky basterd if it dosent thin things are just going there it's time to grow up friend love is more fun wihn you don't hold all the cards and you just might find that you are a hell of alot happyer in the long run . if it's freely given back to you . and not just a traped will so free the poor girl bag her forgivness and learn your leson in this becuos if you don't sooner or later you will fall in love (like now?)

and it will tear you apart the not knowing and remmember all things happin for a good resune. ow yah sin in the greek just means you missed your mark. if you do the right thing good things happin to you but if you go around throwing tricks on peaple your just on a big ego trip and you will never get eney where in this life. magick is there in meny was to cut corners if you have to but don't be lazy some times it's better to walk the long way

02:58 / 10.11.01

sorry this is just.

well i've seen one to meny fall dawin rell hard becous of this kind of shit

14:47 / 10.11.01

I say you should only do what you would like to have done to you.

15:18 / 10.11.01

Interesting that so many posters to this thread feel that love/sex magick worked for them. Far be it from me to argue with your collective experiences, but I wonder if it might have been more due to the overwhelming post-ritual self-confidence factor?

I've never worked a love spell in my life (really! honest!

). I have been the target of a couple very unsuccessful love/sex spells, and it left me feeling rather disgusted that the guy couldn't just come up to me and say "Hey, I fancy you, doing anything this weekend?" It just seems a cowardly way to go about getting laid...

...unless, and this is the theory I posted in the archival thread, the spell is actually working on the spellcaster and not the target. Doing such a ritual gives someone a sense of power, an edge that they wouldn't ordinarily feel otherwise. In that sense it would be as appropriate as impulsivelad's comparisons (the nice clothes, the cologne...) to use.

Just make sure your intended target doesn't know more about Magick than you do

15:21 / 10.11.01

quote:Originally posted by impulsivelad:
[QB]nonono you did nothing wrong... glamors and attraction spells are no different then wearing nice cloths to impress her, a cologne that hypnotizes her, bringing her an offering of flowers, or writing her a love poem.]

I do not agree with this statement
. These are obvious courting tactics and are not blinding your Prospect with trickery. You know W., one cannot make another fall in love with them. Would you like it if someone who loved you and you did not love them employed some very powerful spell and took your life off track?
What I am saying is that a certain amount of charm and seduction are naturally employed in courtship but, a foundation for a relationship whipped up in the kitchen (...or wherever you do your whipping ha-ha..)as it were, strikes me as synthetic, fabricated. Reality sets in eventually, especially over the course of a lifetime with someone.
Hey W., it sounds like you've had your fun but if you want a life partner perhaps the old fashioned way is best? Besides, can you really respect someone whose mind cannot match yours? I couldn't respect a man who came under my spell and was so grossly unaware of his own true self.

With Much Love, May

[ 10-11-2001: Message edited by: May Tricks ]

[ 10-11-2001: Message edited by: May Tricks ]

17:02 / 10.11.01

The strongest thaumaturgical results I've ever seen are from various afro-caribbean traditions so I'll post my one cautionary tale from a real life Palo Mayombe situation.

A guy I know was obsessed with this girl so he went to a Palero to get some 'love magic' done.

The Palero explained that the spell would make it so that she would feel uncontrollably drawn to him. She wouldn't be able to rest until she was with him. The Palero cautioned him that this was powerful magic and asked him if he was he ready for the consequences.

My friend thought this was great, had the spell done and within a week the two of them were having hot passionate sex.

Unfortunately their two personalities weren't compatible for real love or even a real intimate relationship.

Their 'relationship' deteriorated into mean and painful actions against each other as they tried to break free of whatever it was that was binding them (magic coupled with guilt, lust, pride, etc.).

It all ended in tears and was not worth the emotional cost.

For myself, I guess it's pride that would keep me from doing 'fall in love with me' type love magic.

If the person doesn't want to be with me then fine. Best of luck, no hard feelings.

I don't want them to want me because of any enchantment. I want them to want me for me.

17:44 / 10.11.01

quote:Originally posted by Lothar Tuppan:

If the person doesn't want to be with me then fine. Best of luck, no hard feelings.
I don't want them to want me because of any enchantment. I want them to want me for me.

Now that's self-assurance, and some very powerful magick!
-May

18:19 / 10.11.01

Ok, I agree with Lothar and May to an extent! I still don't think you did anything wrong but maybe you didn't allow for a certain amount of freedom for your partner? I mean I tried a LOVE spell and it was a bust cause I didn't love the girl, but fuck spells and find-the-person-I-need spell worked beautifully. Maybe it's cause I never added the word love in my statement of intent?

20:11 / 10.11.01

Good point impulsive!
Just the fact that one is placing a spell on another for purposes of falling in love, cancels out any chance of actually doing so.

01:13 / 11.11.01

magic can't force chemistry. that's what it comes down to.

When you have the chemistry, then you don't need the magic.

Non-targeted ShagMe spells are fun tho

Tryphena Absent

01:54 / 12.11.01

ha, chemistry, sometimes chemistry isn't enough.

Forget the magic, when you forget the magic it goes away, exercise control, you don't need a spell to send it away because it's intrinsically linked to you. Tell it to leave and wave your hand and you'll just be left with her and let her decide. People have their own brains and wills and the problem with love magic is not so much about the person who casts and any insecurities they will feel as the person who it effects because they want to choose and deserve to.

Having said that: I really wouldn't mind getting entangled in someone else's random shag me spell right now.

02:49 / 12.11.01

I'll shag you Nina.

-Spreading Love Like Jam on Toast
May Tricks

P.S- I am just having a bit of fun, I hope no one is offended.

13:44 / 12.11.01

1. Is it immoral to use magic to attract someone to you?
No more than pretending you have something to offer that you don't, or wearing tighter jeans. Using magic to MAKE them love you (or more commonly, lust after you) is very dodgy, as the chance are, its about your power over them.

2. Is it wrong to continue to cast spells while in a relationship?
As in, to smooth over the cracks? Yes, because it doesn't resolve the issue at hand.(whatever they may be)
[qb]3. If yes, is it in my best interest to remove all magic I placed on her and see how it goes?
I'm with impulsivelad on this one.

15:00 / 12.11.01

quote:Originally posted by impulsivelad:
In the end it's all magic tricks to get what you want: HER. And now that you actually love her, you're second guessing yourself and possibly fucking it up (unconsciously maybe?)
Think of this rough spot in your relationship as a test. Use magic or don't, if you pass you get to keep her.[/QB]

Really, let's think about this....I diidn't know the Universe was handing out girlfriends as trophies!
"Good job ol' boy, here's some pussy for your effort!"

Let's face it, love spells are a scam by some ambitious(so-called)witches way back when.You might as well call a psychic network!
This isn't about love or even lust, it is about control!, control over another human being!

Appalled

-May

15:36 / 12.11.01

_____________________________________________
quote:Originally posted by What do you mean?:
former partner told me my sex magic has backfired on me and that is why I am having my problems with her.Is that possible?
_____________________________________________

By the way W. this is not *sex magic* You are spellcasting. Sex Magic has it's roots in Tantric Yoga. Although not all Tantra is sexual, the idea during this practice is to become the deity to which you subscribe. If you wish to become as Osiris, for example, then you would employ methods to help generate that state of mind. The practice of having sex while in a hieghtened state of awarness (because you have developed the mind of an enlightened being)is Tantric sex. It is also important that your partner be a practitioner as well so she can enhance this experience and not hinder it. Both partners must generate appropriate states of mind
in order to be succesful, ie: Osiris/Isis, Vajrasattva/Vajragarvi, Hadit/Nuit...and so forth. This is not a light practice done for kicks!

One more thing W., isn't there any one who loves you truly?, or is that not good enough?

-May

[ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: May Tricks ]

[ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: May Tricks ]

Mordant Carnival

19:31 / 12.11.01

I always reckoned that if a love spell works at all, it's going to work on the caster and not the castee, helping them to understand and relate to the object of their affections better. I honestly can't see it working any other way. Mind you, I leave magick out of my relationships- more fun that way!

18:33 / 13.11.01

Let me be your love servitor...wooo!

Dude-I am getting so much heat because of you and your funky mojo...yeesh.
ALL MAGICIANS KNOW: YOU ALWAYS MUST UNDO WHAT HAS BEEN DONE ONCE THE GOAL HAS BEEN REACHED.
Don't you remember the Craft?(the movie) Anything will come back at you 3 times as powerful.That means,if you made her fall in love with you,in the end you suffer as your love<?> surpasses hers and probably comes across asa obsession.
You made you bed,now cry in it.As you lie there getting no action,think where you went wrong.Contrary to Nintendo,playing with power is not alway a good thing.

Or-you could cast another spell...

[ 13-11-2001: Message edited by: City-zen Rex ]

17:20 / 14.11.01

Look, if you think that you might suffer for using your will, you will. If you are a scaredy-pants type who is worrying about the
morality of your actions, magic may not be
the right line for you. There are plenty of other thought forms and religious traditions
that make you feel good and produce decent results while still being tied to the Xian slave faith.

-Jesse

22:30 / 14.11.01

If you are a scaredy-pants type who is worrying about the morality of your actions, magic may not be the right line for you. – Rev. Jesse

Not sure what you mean by this, Rev. I agree that a certain amount of intestinal fortitude is essential to working Magick. But seriously taking into consideration the ramifications of one's actions isn't cowardice – it's common sense.

22:40 / 14.11.01

This is hooplah.

You love her or you don't.

She loves you or she don't.

The ethics of how it got that way are irrelevant. I mean, in the ordinary way, who knows what sicko stuff goes into mutual attraction and affection?

If you're feeling guilty about using magick, don't do it to her more. If you're not, then I'd suggest doing something rather more concrete to show your love than the odd spell.

I'm a big fan of 'being a model man' spells, myself.

[ 14-11-2001: Message edited by: The Miser's Beautiful Daughter ]

23:51 / 14.11.01

quote:1. Is it immoral to use magic to attract someone to you?

umm i wouldn't reccomend it. i wouldn't whant some dude castin what not so i pine over him. but if it's ment to happen it's ment to happen i try not to screw in the "love" area, although maybe i should becuse letting things happen the natural way has landed me in hell .. *sniff* no one loves meeee

21:47 / 15.11.01

Aw come here.
Have a hug.
I love you.

22:17 / 15.11.01

you must put your self on the line. and love your self before eney one ellis will ever love you in retern. confidence will get you every where. be forword tell people whut you wont not every one can read your mind. love is give and take not just take you can loose a lot but if you think it's worth the risk you have the world to gane.

22:18 / 15.11.01

you must put your self on the line. and love your self before eney one ellis will ever love you in retern. confidence will get you every where. be forword tell people whut you wont not every one can read your mind. love is give and take not just take you can loose a lot but if you think it's worth the risk you have the world to gane.

Mister Remington Finn

00:30 / 16.11.01

I´m a true believer in the Djinni Game and its implications on, well, most everything in live.

The Djinni (or genie, whathaveit) always makes sure that the the end result of any wish he grants leaves the wisher at the same netgain that he started with. Lots of example abundant and a great game to play for yourself.
Say you wish for someone to be dead. The djinni could solve that by transpporting you to the moment in time that person is dead. Your wish is granted but you have lost time (= live) yourself

Wishing for gold, but not able to gather it al and leave before the owners chase you down.....

Wishing for eternal life has so many cute ways to fuck you up for the rest of well....
eternity....

Back to this love spell thing: Same equilibrium, though cruel. Use a spell to lure someone in love with you and fall in love yourself.....

Mister Finn

PS I was a lot influenced by this by the short story `The Wishing Game´ By Larry Nivens...

Mister Remington Finn

00:31 / 16.11.01

Dang...could use a spellchecker button...stoopit taipo´s

Mordant Carnival

22:30 / 30.08.03

Bumping this, since the topic has cropped up again in a recent thread.