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Promethea 23 - out now (inevitably, some spoilers)

 
 
DaveBCooper
15:27 / 01.11.02
Well, I picked this up last night, and I thought it was smashing - great story (well, whaddaya expect from Moore?), and art that should be sweeping all the awards if there's any justice; clean lines, great layouts, never any doubt as to which panel you should be looking at next to follow the story, and some neat-o cosmological stuff. All of which is topped off by cracking colouring and lettering which is always reader-friendly. Great stuff.

Maybe I'm just giddy with it because I read it last night after seeing Donnie Darko, and am thus awash with things to think about, but did anyone else think this issue was a great end to the whole 'magic explained' storyline (assuming that's what it was - it had that feel) ?

DBC
 
 
gergsnickle
15:51 / 01.11.02
This is quite possibly my favorite comic right now, and it was great to finally see the conclusion of the magic(k)al spheres quest. Plus, of course, this is some of the best art and layout going right now. Beyond that, I'm glad Sophie finally got back to earth; for a while Promethea was becoming the interesting comic where nothing "happened". Plus, I was glad to see the Weeping Gorilla again!

As for the Twin Peaks letter, can't help you there. Sorry.
 
 
lentil
15:54 / 01.11.02
Got it in my bag but haven't read it yet. I was in two minds about it because I found the last issue immensely irritating, but it did look good in the store. I guess this would be the end of the treatise on the qabbalah, cos they've reached the highest sephiroth this month, haven't they? Plus the last page looked to be set on Malkuth, which hasn't happened throughout this storyline. Hmmm. I hope subsequent issues see the threads Moore's been fomenting on the side move to the forefront.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
17:32 / 01.11.02
and 'gerry adams' puts in a fine performance too.

all the circles with text and random happenings - very nice - yes fuckin beautiful artwork - but seen it before in the Invisibles.

Nice to see Moore treading in Morrison's footsteps.
 
 
Tamayyurt
02:00 / 02.11.02
This issue was incredible! I really liked this story arch but, yeah, I'm glad Sophie's back on Earth. And um, does anyone else think Stacia/Grace is going to have a hard time giving up the Promethea role? I see the possibility of a great confrontation. Even though, Sophie has gotten so knowledgeable (i.e. powerful) that I can't see how Stacia/Grace is going to be a problem for her. As a matter of fact, I don't see how anything is ever going to be a problem for Sophie again. (But it's sure going to be fun finding out.)
 
 
Warewullf
14:48 / 02.11.02
Amazing issue. Really. Stunning. Loved that two-page spread of word ballons.

But I wonder what Moore's going to do next? How do you follow a story of that magnitude?
 
 
gotham island fae
21:42 / 02.11.02
Just got back from the store where I read #23 (!!23!!!). I read it right there at the counter and cried. I love this book that much. I think it was a wonderful top off to the qabalistic quest that Moore has shared with us. Simple. Beautiful. Touching. Ah.
As for what comes next, I have to agree that Stacia and Grace are not likely to relinquish their new-found existence. But who says they have to? When Sophie first manifested the four Prometheas, there was no problem with there being more than one. I would expect that we will be seeing two manifest stories running around for some time. Pondering what might be coming makes me think that it may even be a necessity...
 
 
penitentvandal
21:43 / 02.11.02
Because the Midget put it there.

How can Sophie have a problem fighting Grace/Stacia? How about this - because the Stacia Promethea is the Promethea of earth, Sophie can't turn into Promethea now. This means she has to defeat the Grace/Stacia Promethea using only her knowledge of magick and suchlike as Sophie. This will all probably happen after Grace/Stacia kills the Painted Doll, and will set things up for the eventual 'Sophie Promethea returns to complete the Great Work of Magick' storyline.

Maybe. Possibly. As if...

Fnord.
 
 
Tamayyurt
22:09 / 02.11.02
Who says Sophie can't turn into Promethea? She can and she's better at it than Stacia. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think they're going to fight. Sophie is much too powerful and compassionate for that. I mean, Stacia is not only her best friend but she's also one with Sophie and God (as a matter of fact so is the painted doll) I think Soph is going to love her into submission (in the tenderest definition of that word.) She's an unstoppable force now. She's everything and she knows it.
 
 
Ganesh
00:49 / 03.11.02
When's Stacia's latent attraction to Sophie gonna manifest? Will we see some hot Promethea-on-Promethea action?
 
 
penitentvandal
14:43 / 03.11.02
'Who says Sophie can't turn into Promethea?'

No-one. It was just a theory - the sort of cheesy direction the story might go in in the hands of a lesser writer than Moore, based on the idea that 'everything goes wrong' next issue. I also thought it would be nice to see Sophie as a human versus one of the Prometheas, in the grand Kirbyesque tradition of always making the villain more powerful than the hero.

Actually, I think the idea of Sophie loving the new Promethea into submission is much better. Very 'Fifth Element...
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
15:39 / 03.11.02
There's a real connection between the White and how it is depicted in Prom23 and the cartoons Botecelli did of Dante's Inferno. I'm referring to the passages where Beatrice guides Dante into the heavens.

Anyone else get this?

Have you all talked about this before.

it's so similar.
 
 
Aertho
16:11 / 04.11.02
Did anyone else see the word balloon on the "Our Father, who art..." page that said "I have done fifteen for you, I am your red right hand." ?

Obviously creepy, since the page seems to be depicting direct communication to God for wildly different individuals. But there's more... Judging from what we've learned about Kaballah thus far, what might the "red right hand" of God mean, if not Geburah?

Apparently there is someone out there who believes they are justifying God's will. Any thoughts on who this killer might be? I think it's another reference to the Painted Doll -that he's not random at all.
 
 
Tamayyurt
18:22 / 04.11.02
yeah, I noticed it too and got a bit of a chill. I figured it was a serial killer but I didn't connect it to, well, the only serial killer in the book. And yeah Marv said the Painted Doll has some sort of system.
 
 
Jack Fear
18:23 / 04.11.02
"Red right hand" is a quote from John Milton's Paradise Lost, as all good Nick Cave fans know.
 
 
Aertho
19:47 / 04.11.02
Looks like I don't know jack about Nick Cave... maybe you could tell us some about the Paradise Lost context of "red, right hand"?
 
 
Jack Fear
20:11 / 04.11.02
Paradise Lost, Book 2: Here's the fallen angel Belial discouraging his fellow demons against entering into open warfare with Heaven, reminding them how God kicked their asses last time:

What when we fled amain, pursu'd and strook
With Heav'ns afflicting Thunder, and besought
The Deep to shelter us? this Hell then seem'd
A refuge from those wounds: or when we lay
Chain'd on the burning Lake? that sure was worse.
What if the breath that kindl'd those grim fires
Awak'd should blow them into sevenfold rage
And plunge us in the Flames? or from above
Should intermitted vengeance Arme again
His red right hand to plague us?

The "red right hand," then, is God's. But look who's doing the characterizing: a devil, the Father of Lies.


(Nick Cave, BTW, has written two songs that use the phrase: one called, unsurprisingly, "Red Right Hand," about a shadowy, Mephistopheles-figure: it was used on The X-Files and in all three SCream movies. The other, "Song of Joy" is about a serial killer who [the narrator rather clumsily informs us] "quotes John Milton on the walls in his victim's blood / on my wall he wrote 'His red right hand' / that, I'm told, is from Paradise Lost": in the end, it turns out that the narrator of the song is, himself, the killer, and is telling his sad story to lure a prospective victim.)
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:37 / 04.11.02
I'm referring to the passages where Beatrice guides Dante into the heavens.

Anyone else get this?


Totally. The way that the images get sketchier ("DIALOGUE HERE X") and less well-defined the closer we get to God, before finally being a blank sheet of paper ("High phantasy lost power and here broke off,") and the whole cirle motif, the way that the spread on pages 12 & 13 suggests the stars spiralling over the visitors' heads. Yep.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
06:58 / 05.11.02
"She's an unstoppable force now. She's everything and she knows it."

True, and while I imagine her new knowledge of self and the universe and the universe of her self will be vastly important to upcomming events, I imagine that she will also run into some difficulties as well. Taking that self knowledge and applying it to the world around us is one of the hardest tasks a magickian/shaman/sorcerer has before them.
 
 
primaeval soup
19:48 / 05.11.02
I think I must have some kind of latent obsessive-compulsive disorder.

How else to explain why a little joke by a comic book’s letterer should completely destroy the dramatic tone and effect of a climactic double-splash-page for me?

I dunno…

And is it just me, or did the climax feel rushed? …Maybe it was coz I’d been expecting the story to touch on what was beyond Kether.

Ah, I’m just nit-picking, I suppose.

The Botecelli stuff went past me. But yeah, yawn, it was Morrison-influenced from the word go, wasn’t it? Opening panels like a reversal of that Animal Man death-scene… splash-page effects that threw me right back to Dulce, New Mexico… and lots and lots of white paper (was Morrison the first to do the white-page thing in comics, I wonder?)…

Turnabout’s fair play, I guess… Daresay you might find the odd Moore “homage” in Morrison’s stuff…

What was the story with those crumpled sheets of paper in the final panels? Just came to me as I wrote that, that maybe they were recalling the Kether experience…the blank whiteness of that divine moment, become a thown-away piece of rubbish in Malkuth…dead leaves in the wind… O.K., pretentious horseshit, mea culpa. But I got the feeling while reading the comic that those papers were somehow meant to be read as meaning something, as connected with that “Next Issue!” teaser somehow? Am I missing something obvious? Anyone?
 
 
penitentvandal
20:31 / 05.11.02
DC Comics Inc pipped the Morrison to the post on the white page thing by a matter of mere weeks with the whole 'Zero Hour' thing, IIRC.

I just thought the serial killer was just one among a whole bunch of examples of people's ways of talking to God, like the 'I hate you...How could you do that?' guy, and my personal favourite, makes-me-go-all-warm-in-an-embarassing-Ned-Flanders-way balloon, '...and I hope you're okay.'

As to the climax being rushed...Well, would you want another year-and-a-half long explanation of the art of descending the Kabbalah? On second thought, don't answer that...
 
 
Mr Tricks
03:11 / 06.11.02
I loved that Jump... sort of like comming down from a Major trip... allofasudden you're back...
 
 
lentil
14:14 / 06.11.02
Yeah, fer sure, On v strong trips I've had a definite sense of reaching a point of.. oblivion, or something, and then feeling the world put itself back together again. This issue rocked in many ways.
 
 
gotham island fae
15:24 / 06.11.02
If there is someone else who jumps back and forth between Comics and Magic, maybe they caught this too...
Doesn't it seem that there are two extra paths going up toward Kether when Promethea, Barb and Steve jump down the tree? The geometry of it is a bit hokey, but that's metaphysics for you, I guess.
Maybe my eyes were just crossed, but I double checked when I first read it... I'm gonna triple check later...
Okay, there's not extra paths, merely seems like paths 15 and 17 continue on toward Kether without contacting Binah or Chokmah...
 
 
The Natural Way
15:40 / 06.11.02
My trip comedowns are always accompanied by a sense of weight.

The little *reality buoys* begin to emerge - stable points of reference - and suddenly.......yr back.
 
 
Mr Tricks
00:05 / 07.11.02
I particularly recall comming down from my first DMT trip,
Just after communing with the god-head or whatever an ego driven thought had me wonder about my companions who where also trippin' (I guess I also assumed they where in the same hyperspace with me). The moment I thought of them I was instantly "back" with reality assembling itself first at the center of my feild of vision & working it's way back towards my paripheral vision...allofasudden I was back!!!
.
.
.
.
. . .just thought I would share...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
02:50 / 10.11.02
For anyone who was wondering, the Botticelli sketches are here.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
05:20 / 13.11.02
Here's something that came to me while reading lsat night:
Is the woman in the park when Sophie gets back from her trip also Al Crowley?
 
  
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