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New X-Men #153

 
  

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smh2001
05:15 / 22.02.04
"So is Cassandra/Ernst a retrained feeder from the future?"

Maybe that's what's wrong with time - Cassandra/Feeder was sent back from the future to Charles' womb. But Cassie and the X-Men beat Beast in 154 to prevent that from happening.
 
 
Mike-O
08:03 / 22.02.04
I doubt that... Cassandra has Xavier's DNA throughout her, and more than that the Prof has memories of her....
 
 
Quireboy
12:13 / 22.02.04
Given the structure of Morrison's run and patterns that have emerged in the arcs, I've increasingly suspected there might be a Donnie Darko-esque time loop going on. Planet X and Here Comes Tomorrow suggests this is something to do with entropy. All those words from the future.

Mike-O, given the amount of false memories floating round NXM I see no reason to take Xavier's memory of Cassandra as fact. Although the comment about falling on the stairs might suggest it is.

Note how Morrison's is pointing to an explanation of the past destruction by 'Dark' Phoenix. I think you can take Jean's action/comments in this issue to mean either that the Brocoli people of D'Bari were an evolutionary blip, or that the incubation period was previously messed with by Mastermind - hence she does not follow 'correct procedure'. Ties back to the point I was making during Planet X that maybe Jean couldn't carry out the dissinfection because her human compassion was restraining her.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
14:46 / 22.02.04
I was thinking that Cassandra/feeder thing was sent back to face Charles in the womb when I posted my theory but I'm starting to think perhaps she placed some fake memories in his head when she attacked him in Cerebra in the first issue (114).
She's got Charlies DNA... well doesn't the Beast of the future have EVERYONE'S DNA to play with? Why not Charles'?

I don't think the X-men of the future will beat Beast. I think we'll come to realise that "Here Comes Tomorrow" is actually the prequel to "E is for Extinction" and will explain where Cassandra came from originally.
Nothing at the end of 150 is changed, Mag's is still dead, Phoenix is still dead, Scott and Emma are together and considering taking over the school, Charles has stepped down as headmaster.
The only thing that needs a hell of a lot of explaining is the whole New York incident. Perhaps the cuckoos or Charles does a bit of mindwiping/altering to fix that one up. When you're a telepath anything is possible...But most of that can be covered in a page or two.
 
 
Alex Thoth
20:04 / 22.02.04
Yeah, did we ever find out what Cassandra ingected into her neck way back in e is for extinction? I don't remeber.
 
 
doyoufeelloved
20:25 / 22.02.04
The only thing that needs a hell of a lot of explaining is the whole New York incident.

I'm really surprised that everyone is so hung-up on New York being wrecked. This is the Marvel Universe, people -- they'll do A Very Special Issue of THOR where he's fixing everything, because he can, and he learns the true meaning of compassion and selflessness from a fireman, and he'll conclude the story by saying "Truly, Gods do walk amongst mere mortals" or something like that. How many fuckin' times have they completely rebuilt New York now? Why does ANYBODY still live there? (I assume constant destruction keeps real estate prices down in the Marvel U?)
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
20:39 / 22.02.04
Its more the physical destruction that can't really go unnoticed... and also the resulting mutant terrorism from Magneto and all his followers (the holocaust of the humans...) these things should be addressed at least in the pages of New X-men.

Cassandra injected herself with:
1. Nanosentinel tech so that when her blood splattered all over the X-men they were also infected.
2. Various virus' so that Xavier's mind in Cassandra's body couldn't survive much longer, even if the body survived the gunshot.

Whats more questionable is what did Beast inject in Cassandra back in E is for...?
 
 
cube is generally elsewhere
02:05 / 23.02.04
Clearly a big dose of MDMA, so that the title conformed to the trade descriptions act. See her leg jiggling in time to a non-existent breakbeat? No? Ah, well.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Henry who diagnosed the whole nano-sentinels thing anyway? If he had such an overarching plan, why did he 'cure' everyone? The point I'm leading to is just WHEN did Beast go rogue? IIRC, the very first time we see him in Grant's NXM is when he's being dumped over the phone. Setting something up so early and apparently so innocently is quite a nasty thing for GM to do. I buy the whole circular/bubble universe idea.
Makes sense and means that (despite Jean being FINALLY dead-dead (until the XMEN 3 film)), nothing much has changed in the continuity, so later writers won't feel compelled to screw with Grant's ideas and retcon his run.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
02:07 / 23.02.04
It's not beast, man. I don't think he ever went "rogue".
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
02:19 / 23.02.04
(probably)
 
 
doyoufeelloved
05:17 / 23.02.04
IIRC, the very first time we see him in Grant's NXM is when he's being dumped over the phone

That's four issues into the run, dude. He'd been in three issues before that -- we first see him in the Cerebra lab with Jean and Charles, peeling back the Coke can lid and talking about how his secondary mutation makes him feel like a Hindu sex god. It's the first X-Men scene in Grant's run. Beast never went rogue -- there are some outstanding questions about what, exactly, he figured out while marooned with Emma, but he never "went rogue."
 
 
TroyJ15
05:19 / 23.02.04
Wasnt the injection that Cassandra was giving herself explained, I swore it was to make her immune to something (my memory is kind of spotty but I will be reading this all again).

I'm pretty certain Beast is John Sublime, grafts and all! I agree with the sentiment that Here Comes Tommorow is probably going to be a prequel to E is for Extinction.

Now chew on this...
We are all asking how if Cassandra was created by Sublime to take down Charles in the past, why does charles have these memories of her falling down the steps. Well, I say look towards Martha Johansan. They seem pretty close and Martha has telepathic ability of very intense nature. While Cassandra was in space fucking up the Shi'Ar Empire, Martha was making sure that if Jean tried to crawl in Charle's mind that she would get misinformation. Hence making that entire story of "falling down the stairs." I may be off but I seriosly believe that Cassandra and Martha are the two to watch carefully. Cassie aint done, I mean anyone who read the Imperial storyline --- did you really think she was done?!
 
 
Mike-O
09:33 / 23.02.04
The injection, boys, was to boobytrap her body with the diseases/nano-sentinels.
 
 
wicker woman
09:43 / 23.02.04
::nothing much has changed in the continuity::

Magneto being dead, too... thank god for that. I think Magneto stopped being an effective villain a long time ago, and I absolutely love how pathetic Grant made him seem.

On that note, if future writers somehow retcon him back to life after being beheaded, someone dies.
 
 
cube is generally elsewhere
09:56 / 23.02.04
Stand corrected over Beast.
Also stand woozily after one too many ales before posting last night.
 
 
CPedro
10:44 / 23.02.04
"Yeah, did we ever find out what Cassandra ingected into her neck way back in e is for extinction? I don't remeber"

If I'm not mistaken it was those so-very-little sentinels in her bloodstream. It was from there that the school was infected.
 
 
CPedro
11:03 / 23.02.04
Like MFreitas wrote there exist a particular quote from issue 134 that is quite interesting:
(In an helicopter after investigating the Jumbo Carnation Murderer)
Scoot to Hank:Oh, for crying out loud, Hank. I love you, but your officially to the road to Apocaliptic Mind loss...

In the next page the conversation continues and there is another nteresting quote I have to make:
Scoot to Hank about Jean:But you can't run a diagnostic fo what Jean's experiecing. There aren't instruments to measure where she is...

Now in 133 there are some interesting things too:
In the Airport Lilandra tries to assassinate Charles thinking He is still Cassandra Nova. She fails and then a car arrive with some Shiar:
"You must come with us, Professor Xavier. The Heavens are in turmoil. And Judgment must fall on the planet Earth"

A few pages ahead Xavier says goodbye to Lilandra and some spooky Shiar called Araki 6 says this:
Araki 6:The mutants species has registered toxic levels of agression -- nature itself has chosen to deal with your kind. Your marriage to Empress Lilandra is hereby annulled.
Charles asks: Disinfection?
Araki answer: Oh, yes. The Pheonix has hatched, Professor. And she is merciless.

...

Intersting isn't it? How everythinmg is wrapped in these four last issues of the run. But the most interesting is what all of this brings back to my memory. "Are these words from the future?"
 
 
Mario
14:23 / 23.02.04
Something to consider...

In the latest issue, Koo Koo's dialogue sounds an awful lot like someone _remembering_ what's supposed to happen next. For example, that "falling on the stairs" line occured as she stood on top of the staircase.

Bumbleboy had the same vibe, during his interrogation.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:28 / 23.02.04
I'm still amazed that three issues into this storyline, after establishing that the Sublime Beast is several centuries old and seeing him grow thousands of Nightcrawlers and a whole new Beast body, some of you are still convinced that he's actually an evil Henry McCoy. Why is it so hard to grasp that he just built himself a Beast body, and part of the reason for that is to trick and confuse Jean into doing what he wants?
 
 
Quimper
16:04 / 23.02.04
Exactly. It's was obvious by Phoenix and Beast Sublime's first meeting when she called him Henry that he is NOT...er...um...yes...Henry.

RE: the stairs comment. It was my first impression that she was just once amongst a group of people that were attacked by Feeders, and she was remembering the incident. But Beast made it clear that Feeders were a brand new species. So perhaps I am wrong.
 
 
Quireboy
18:22 / 23.02.04
I'm intrigued by Martha's deluxe alzeihmer's - if there is a time loop going on is this what Cassandra inject herself with in order to turn Xavier into a vegatable when she switches their minds/bodies?
 
 
break
18:45 / 23.02.04
< She's got Charlies DNA... well doesn't the Beast of the future have EVERYONE'S DNA to play with? Why not Charles'?>>

To work back up the list a bit, lets not forget that Cassie is capable of copying and integrating another's DNA and incorporating it into herself, as she does to Don Trask in 115 (so she can control the super sentinals herself). Lending further weight to the possibility that she might not be Chuck's sister.

Just an observation.
 
 
MFreitas
19:04 / 23.02.04
Quoting Quireboy:
"I'm intrigued by Martha's deluxe alzeihmer's - if there is a time loop going on is this what Cassandra inject herself with in order to turn Xavier into a vegatable when she switches their minds/bodies?"

Well, well... Good thoughts! This is starting to look as something relevant, rather than just a cute old gal's disease. And just look at this quoting from issue 122 (Imperial, pt.1):

Beast: "(Cassandra) even boobytrapped her own body to disable Charles...
So far I've found motor neuron disease, a kind of RAPID ALZHEIMER'S (note: does it qualify as deluxe Alzheimer's?), and a new form of degenerattive Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease (note: the mad cow disease)".

RAPID ALZHEIMER'S, hum?
 
 
TroyJ15
19:44 / 23.02.04
Being in this thread makes me fear what will happen after Morrison leaves even more. Damn him for getting so much of it right that it's scary. I mean he stripped down alot of nonsense, simplified everything else, made certain characters alot more interesting then they were in the past, and looked back at what worked and what makes the X-Men click and used it fully. Damn!
 
 
Mr Tricks
20:46 / 23.02.04
As I understannd it:

BEAST was going to attempt to "cure" the boobytrapped Cassie body in order to attempt to save Charles' consciousness and redeem himself. Jean convinces him not to in order to not fall into Cassandra's plans. She then stores Charles' consciousness with-in the minds of every telepath in the world (interesting).

When Cassandra returns Beast then injects Charles Body with Nano sentinals (something Cassandra would assume they wouldn't do as it would endanger their teacher) motivating her to leave charles' body and attempt to inhabit the minds of everyone on the planet. (re)enter Charles forcing her out of his body and eventually into Stuff's body.

Those same needles seem to be in Martha which could mean the Nano-sentinals are either controlling her ot keeping her alive. It may be through these self same sentinals that Maneto controls martha... or not.

There's some need to determine alot more about martha.

Curious about where the "feeders" where spawned from? Where they from the Phoenix egg?
if so that could well explain the time-distortion as Charles only hears words from the future in the company of JEAN (I don't recall exactly but even during his 1st encounter with Cassie he doesn't make that comment until Jean enters the room).
Could it be that Jean sends bits of Charles' consciousness into the future as a fail-safe from the events she (as phoenix) has foreseen?
 
 
Quimper
22:15 / 23.02.04
Woah! Woah! I've been trying to think of a way that Charles' conciousness WAS in the future. It really seemed to me that the lines "I can't...something crawled into my face..." was Chuck answering the Angel girl's prayers. I mean, the speech balloons were a response to her pleas AND they are featured over an image of the Xavier statue.

And as far as this alzheimers thing is concerned (which is quite interesting), what about this...

ESME: "It's what alzheimers feels like, in fast forward."
 
 
cube is generally elsewhere
00:41 / 24.02.04
Given the early interest in duality (Cassandra/Charles) in the series, and the way that Chas and Magneto are usually shown as complemetary opposites, could it be possible that the whole Cassandra theme is some sort of sleight of hand to detract from the possibility that Magneto and Prof X are somehow the real twins, and Magneto's death (which was holding Charles in check) allowed Charles to move into the ascendent with disastrous consequences?
Just an idea. Shoot it down, please.
 
 
Aertho
00:52 / 24.02.04
Duality was misdirection.

Cassie wasn't built in the future. That's weird, and not in the Granty weird way.

And if Cass was telepathic to start with, why would she need anyone's help to boobytrap her/Charles's memories? She did it herself to fuck with his sense of ethical superiority. I don't for a minute believe they were actually twins.

There was a strange throwaway line in E is for Extinction about how Cassie accessed the full array of mutations from Charles' DNA. Charlie exhibited a strange telekinetic display when Cassie initially invaded his mind... i think a glass broke. All these "words from the future" seem to be precognition... Does Charles have access to all mutations -is that HIS secondary mutation?
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
02:08 / 24.02.04
I've been trying to think of a way that Charles' conciousness WAS in the future.

Well, of course it's in the future. It's in the future, in the past, in the black bug room/Abyss and the white hot room/Kether. As Quire pointed out, Telepathy is about moving outside of all of the little rooms you live in. Time as a linear concept is not a very important convept in this stage of the game.

"This is not a place, this is the wing of the Phoenix touching your heart."

"Are these words from the future?"

Xavier, despite his constant calls for Mutant advancement, is the most afraid of the logical outcome of his own mutation. He could live in a room without walls but insteads chooses to fight against ego death/rebirth.

"You were always here, waiting for yourself to arrive."
 
 
Mario
02:17 / 24.02.04
Been thinking about the Sublime Beast.

It occurs to me that Grant could be claiming that Sublime is Apocalypse..but that he's NOT En Sabah Nur.

What if ESN was merely the first in a long line of host bodies? We know that Poccy is capable of the feat, and that would explain how Sublime keeps surviving as long as he does.

(Fall out of a window? Find another body)

And now, he has access to the entire mutant genebase...except for one special mutant. And she thinks he's her old friend....
 
 
chairmanWOW
09:41 / 24.02.04
I've just finished reading issue 152 (I live in a third world country). Half way through, on the double page spread, I started noticing something. I don't know what happens after 152 and whether I'm just grasping at straws but did anyone else notice the Wizard of Oz thing (the books not the movie, seeing as my supposition includes Ozma and Tok-tok). On that double page, they set out along the yellow brick road to find the Wizard/Dark Beast/Wicked Witch and there they are. Tom Skylark is Dorothy, who arrives on the scene, sort of confused and new to everything, along with her little dog Toto or in this case his enormous robot dog Rover (the Sentinel could also represent Tok-tok). Next to Tom, you find E.V.A or in Oz context the Tin Woodsman. Then there's Wolverine, the cowardly lion. A once glorious warrior reduced to nothing more than an old woman's toothless watchdog. And finally you get the Scarecrow who is represented by New Beak. He's tough on the outside but inside he's just a scared little child trying to live up to his grandfather's legend. Oh, and Cassandra with Martha in hand is of course (of course!) Glenda the Good Witch with the ruby slippers (or a brain for E.V.A perhaps). They each, like their Wizard of Oz counterparts, are searching for something. Wolverine wants to relive his past glory and he wants to be the hero again (courage?). E.V.A, like the Tinman wants a brain or in her case a central nervous system, more specifically the nervous system of Fantomex. Beak's little parallel doesn't pan out as well as the others but it still kinda makes sense. He wants a heart and well...no it doesn't pan out at all. And then finally Martha (is that name even correct). She seems inconspicuous but maybe her part will be just as important as her equivalent, the ruby slippers. Even Cassie said it; she'll be the engine. They even start out in Munchkin-ville (?) and when they embark along the brick road, they are even cheered on by Munchkins. They don't skipping along on their way because this isn't The Wizard of Oz; it's the edgy gothic revamp of the classic children’s tale, ooo dangerous. If you need any more to convincing you can just cast a glance in the direction of the Beast/Sublime. I mean come on...his castle looks almost exactly like The Wicked witch's. He even uses flying monkeys to do his bidding (maybe that witch was a wayward geneticist herself) for Pete’s sake. If hidden allusion and seditious analogies to The Wizard of Oz was good enough for Pink Floyd then I'm sure Morrison wouldn't mind recycling these stale ideas again for his own nefarious ends (like usual).

P.S. Phoenix is Ozma.
 
 
TroyJ15
10:07 / 24.02.04
hm. At first I thought this was all bull, but he's got a point. I wonder if it is intentional. I'll give Morrison credit for making anything seem possible at this point.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:41 / 24.02.04
I was looking at the first hardcover last night, and I was thinking about how the bodiless Mumadrai could Sublime, and the proper defeat of that character happened in 126. I think that maybe 154 will end with Sublime commandeering Cassandra's body and going back in time to begin the events of 114, causing the time loop. Maybe not, it's a bit loopy and confusing. I'm still thinking that the Sublime character was the conciousness of the first Cassandra that we knew.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
15:37 / 24.02.04
I do really like the time loop idea, and then everything would be so much neater than we imagined!

Except the fall out from planet x, I guess.
 
 
Mario
15:54 / 24.02.04
I wouldn't get too upset about Manhattan being trashed. Nobody noticed when it happened in THOR/Avengers/Spider-man either
 
  

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